why DON'T people want caesarians?

[HPonEverything]

Apart from the scar and it taking a while to be able to drive and lift things, what are the other reasons?

I really haven't looked into a caesarian but it now seems to be looking like a bit of a possibility, and I know a lot of people are very against it so I just wondered why.

I had an emergency c section. I was 5cm & both our heart rates dropped. They wheeled me through the labour ward, bum hanging out! My husband scrubbed up & was told he could not come in. They were going to do an epidural but they changed their mind. I just remember counting to 5.
I woke up after an hour & my husband put our Teddy on my chest. He latched himself on!
My hubby had to wait 45 mins before anyone told him we were ok. They forgot!
It took 12 months for me to completely stop hurting. I still get the odd twinge 19 months on.
It was the best thing for me and Teddy at the time. The oral morphine took the pain away and made me sleep. Baby was fine, but did cough due to fluid.
If you have a choice plan what you'd like, but don't be scared its not the worse thing!

the physio after childbirth is brill for c sections they do a lot more of the stomach exercises and for vbirth they do a lot of internal ones we should do it here as well. i used to tell my friends who'd just had babies about it but then they all looked at me like I was nuts so I've stopped now

Good GRIEF there is a lot of claptrap being peddled on here about C-sections. With the result that some posters who have planned sections coming up are now scared witless. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I think the point to remember here is that an emergency C-section is just that. An emergency, life-saving procedure that HAS to be performed because either the mother or the child will die or be seriously injured. There is little point fretting about whether it may or may not happen - nobody can tell the outcome of their birth until they are in labour.

And the second key thing is about women's CHOICE. A so-called 'natural' birth is fraught with potential complications. Many women are lucky and have a smooth delivery and are up and about a couple of hours later. A small minority are unlucky and end up with horrendous, painful complications. But it's luck of the draw. There is no way of knowing what kind of birth you are going to have.

So if a woman decides she does not want to risk damage to her pelvic floor and god knows where else by having an elective section, why on earth should she not have the right to make that choice? Yes, there are risks with surgery as well, but BOTH natural and C-sections carry risk. In a developed country such as the UK in 2011 women are in the immensely privileged position (sometimes, NHS-permitting) to be able to CHOOSE how they want their birth to happen. To read up on the risks, make an educated choice, and roll with it from there. This is called PROGRESS, ladies. We should not be flaming one group or another for making a choice that is purely theirs to make.

I lived in Africa for many years and every single family I knew had lost a female member of their family in childbirth. 'Natural' childbirth, when not done in a hospital or with decent medical help nearby, is one of the biggest killers of women in the developing world today. Women are dying in childbirth as we speak. Perhaps we should remember just how bloody lucky we are to have access to FREE healthcare and LIFESAVING medical tools. Who cares whether a baby is pushed out by the mother or pulled out by a doctor?

I tried for a 'natural' delivery with DD (now 7 months), believing this was the best option bla bla bla. I was induced. She was undiagnosed back-to-back and because doctors refused to believe how much pain I was in, refused to examine me, so I struggled with awful back labour with zero pain relief for hours. Eventually DD's heart rate started falling, consultants got involved and after 10 hours of utter agony my doctor announced I was having an emergency C-section. I punched the air with delight, knowing that my labour would be over soon, DD would be delivered safely and that I would finally get some decent pain relief.

The section was a doddle. Recovery was fine. My bits are all in working order and pooing, peeing and sex feels just the same as before I ever got pregnant. I'm already pregnant again and this time I am CHOOSING (shock horror) to have an elective section. My choice, I know the risks, but I choose these risks over all the potential complications of a vaginal birth.

That is my right as a woman.

I'm sorry, Gherkin, but how dare you dismiss the experiences of a lot of the women that have posted on this thread, as 'claptrap'.

I don't think there has been any unnecessary scaremongering in people's posts, which have been a response to the question posted by the op, "why DON'T people want caesarians?"

There have been people who have come on this thread who have had bad vb, and bad c-sctions, and both experiences are valid reasons why people may be put off one way of birth over another.

Knowledge is power, I had known more about the difficulties that can occur with vaginal birth and breastfeeding before I had dd1, and I wish I had been more aware of just how shit it is possible to feel after a section. I know that lots of people have good recoveries, and for many a c-section can be a wonderful experience after a traumatic vb. BUT it can be even more traumatic than the vb, and I think that taking this into consideration is an important thing when trying to decide on an elcs or vb.

Birth is an experience and as such it's a deeply subjective subject. No two people will have the same experience. It seems to me that the kinds of things that can make it a horrible experience can be shared by both VBs and CSs and are things like:

• lack of control
• prolonged pain with no relief
• long recovery period
• fear that things are going wrong
• medical staff taking over decision making

etc.

The above can happen to any kind of bith but are also particularly associated with a EMCS due to the nature of the procedure.

A chosen, straight-forward, unproblematic, manageably painful and well recovered CS is as wonderful an experience as a chosen, straight-forward, unproblematic, manageably painful and well recovered VB.

Gherkins - excellent post. Lots of myopic opinions here.

OP don't forget that bad news travels quickly! If you're having a planned c section people don't be petrified, be informed about pain relief, recovery etc and remember that most do well, same as VB.

I think some people are losing sight of the fact that the OP was specifically asking about the disadvantages and potential problems with having a c-section. This isn't a thread filled with balanced views because that is not what the OP asked for. Dismissing people's real experiences as 'claptrap' and 'myopic opinions' is just obnoxious.

Hazeyjane: "I'm sorry, Gherkin, but how dare you dismiss the experiences of a lot of the women that have posted on this thread, as 'claptrap'."

I don't think Gherkin was dismissing women's experiences as claptrap, just some of the myths posted on this thread about childbirth, both c section and vb. There IS a lot of misinformation, particularly about c section, and in a civilised society, surely one way in which women's rights can be moved forward is an acknowledgement that HOW we give birth absolutely should be a choice, respected by all. And that includes highly medicalised elective sections at maternal request just as much as it includes homebirthing.

emsyj What is obnoxious is people peddling their own real experiences as an inevitable universal experience rather than something that just happened to them. People claiming your milk always doesn't come in after a CS, or that their milk didn't come in because of the CS, rather than because of something to do with their own bodies. People claiming that you can never lift a newborn, or establish bfing, after a CS. Rather than accepting that there was something about either their bodies or their particularly traumatic CS (perhaps because it was emergency (the clue is in the name there)) that caused these problems, rather than the problems being an inevitable consequence of any CS including elective CSs. People claiming that a CS pouch is inevitable. No it certainly is not. Not if you were fit and not overweight beforehand, and not if you are sensible afterwards. People claiming that the surgeon's bacteria wil 'colonise the baby'. That is most certainly claptrap. And well done to Gherkin for pointing it out.

I didn't think people had suggested on here that what happend to them is universally the case. I have clearly stated that I had a crash section but still bf. My bf difficulties were, according to the midwives that attended me, caused at least in part by my having had a GA as DD was too sleepy to feed. They could have been wrong - nobody is infallible, but that's what I was told.
I don't have a CS pouch but clearly they do affect a lot of people.

I haven't fine tooth combed every post, but I haven't seen anyone say 'this happened to me and therefore it happens to everyone'.

emsyj Not only have many (obviously not all) posters presented their own experience as universal and inevitable, other posters have made suggestions (e.g. around difficulty TTC after a CS, or still birth in subsequent pregnancies, or the one about the bacteria, or some of the statements about not being able to move for weeks after etc - with no clear indication as to whether they are even talking about their own experiences or just parroting old wives (or old NCT members) tales.

I'd suggest you read the whole thread but I hesitate to recommend such a load of claptrap to anyone, to be honest.

OK I accept that then, but I do have an issue with someone coming on here and making a sweeping statement as gherkins did that the thread is full of old claptrap, dismissing not only those posts you refer to but also everyone else's posts that seek to set out real experiences and information.

SoupDragon - If you actually read my post, you would see that I said the myth is "it is not the childbirth but the pregnancy that harms the pelvic floor" - i.e. the pregnancy weighs on pelvic floor muscles (obviously), but the real harm is passing a bowling ball through your fanjo and stretching the muscles (again, obviously).

You are sent to physio in France even after elCS although they know that pelvic floor will be quite OK (on a scale of 5, usually around 4, I was told) because you get to work on abdominal muscles if your pelvic floor is fine. That is what I did.

I hope your thirst for knowledge is now quenched (or were you just picking a fight?). If not, we can continue your education at your leisure.

emsyj But the thread is full of old claptrap and misinformation. With a garnish of poor posters who know they are going to have their first CS imminently being, basically, terrified.

Not exclusively though. There are plenty of quite normal people posting real experiences.

emsyj there are a few people posting in an un-hysterical way, yes. But they are overshadowed by the others. And the poor posters who are being terrified by the misinformation are clearly not seeing the positive or measured stuff and focussing in on the horror stories, which are painted as inevitable, whereas a lot of the more measured people end up with 'but I was just lucky' or similar.

If I had read this thread before my first CS I would have been in a real state. Especially at the thought of my baby being colonised by bacteria (shades of old classic Dr Who stories there).

thetasigmamum you have more patience than me and have taken the time to write what i should have written.

It was the poor poster who admitted that she was now terrified that got to me. People tend to only hear the bad bits...

I have had an emergency and an elective section. There are potential issues with both Vaginal birth and sections, which is why (unless you are very brave) you get monitored by a midwife who can hopefully foresee the potential issues.

You have to balance the risks. Obviously VB is your first option, sections are major abdominal surgery, and surgery is always risky, but I have seen some very bad outcomes from VB and from complications with my first, had I chosen to continue with it, there is a strong chance of me not being here to join in this discussion.

C-sections can take time to recover from - maybe I had a good hospital, who despite needing a general for the elective have had me out of bed quite quickly and set up my bay to allow me relatively easy access to baby and gadgets to help me manouvre. With both I was walking a mile or more within 4 weeks (the school run is 1.5 miles twice a day, which I did 5 weeks after the second birth (big age gap between kids). - despite some internal bleeding that would burst through the wound every couple of days. It took in the end 6 weeks to close up a small part of it properly, with dressings being replaced every couple of days. However that didnt stop me walking and no my walking and manouvering didnt cause it in the first place. My scar 1 year on and having been opened twice is barely noticable - my second surgeon was admiring the neatness first scar (no 'quilting'), so I challenged her to not make it any worse - and she didnt.
A massive avantage of the section was that because I didnt drive, I had to walk lots and I was back to my pre-pregnancy weight when I went for my 6 week check.

In conclusion balance the risk and listen to the professionals advice (then use your own brain to digest it and assess it fully), unfortunately you dont know how you personnally will react to VB (or section) until you do it. There are an awful lots of scary stories and unsatisfactory experiences for both.

All my female relatives in their thirties apart from me have given birth by planned CS, and somehow I -the VB pioneer :) - was the only one that never managed breastfeeding successfully and had to resort to ye olde breastpump. They all managed to breastfeed successfully, even mix feed without their milk drying up!

Yes, Cote. And if you had read my post you will have seen that I said "Pregnancy puts a strain on the pelvic floor so you may not be so smug if you've not been doing exercises." Not that pregnancy was responsible for everything.

But please, feel free to be as patronising as you like.

I've only had one previous surgery which was very routine and short. I caught an infection in hospital which prevented me from eating or drinking and caused some very nasty complications that required further stays in hospital. I realise a c-section is a completely different op to what I had, but the whole experience made me a little phobic of surgery, so I would prefer to avoid it if at all possible. I suspect many people are phobic or at least wary of hospitals, so I'd imagine a c-section would be scary based on that, never mind the actual statistics compared to a v-birth.

Emergency section, for twins.

Very little pain, ditched the pain killers I was sent home with as it was no more painful than the aftermath of a hard gym session.

I certainly seemed to be nipping round the ward a lot more sprightlyly than a lot lot of the VB patients who were doing a very painful looking shuffle.

I did drive,, with no problems, right away.

Section 1st july, ran a half marathon 4th september.

Do have a bit of an overhang, but have put on weight generally so that wont have helped.

It was a very positive experience actually.

Well said Gherkin. Despite the title of the post, the opening conversation seemed more directed at asking for guidance. Wondering how she feels now.