Expressing milk... eperiences please

[kri5ty]

hey girls,

After having read throught he formula thread, i just wanted to jear from you girls who have expressed, and how easy you found it.

I suffer with ME, and my consultant has advised me against breast feeding, as if i become too tried to manage it, and baby who is used to breast, may not be able to bottle feed. So the plan is to express and use bottles (so dad can help with feeds too)

I just wanted to hear how you found it practically...

I have an electric pump

Can you express the milk, chill it, keep it in the fridge, and then is it safe( unlike formula) to warm up for a feed

ANy tips etc would be great

Thanks

yes Longtalljosie he is worrid that say for example i am ok to breastfeed, then i am bad (this could be 2 days later) then the baby would not be used to a bottle. Did you introduce the expressed bottles in to your routine straight away? That sounds like a good idea :)

Thanks for that HandDivedScallopsrgrea :) its great to hear all the details of things such as how many times people express etc x

I exclusively expressed for my DS till he was about 11 months, due to him not latching on.

It was hard goign at first. Expressing every 3 hours and at night too, and steralising, washing the equipment as well as the feeding.
At night I used to express while DH fed the baby. Otherwise the whole thing would take far too long.

Afte about 4 months, I only expressed about 3 times a day and after 6 months twice a day. And I had more than enough for all this feeds.

I used a Medela Symphony double pump which i rented via NCT for £40 a month.

Now I am breastfeeding DD, it is soo much easier than the expressing I had to do with DS.

I started expressing (to get used to it) when the baby was about 3 weeks old. I started trying her on a bottle at 5ish weeks, we had it cracked by about 8 weeks. Although if you started earlier, possibly the baby would get used to the bottle earlier? After all, exclusively FF babies seem to manage bottles fine...

Breastfeeding is honestly easier, less time consuming and less onerous on you than pumping.

Some people can't get a machine to stimulate let down. I can't. So would be pumping (holding the damn thing, with that infernal noise) sitting in one position for 30-40 minutes only getting 20ml out. That's not a whole feed (although don't think about 'whole feeds', it's a bit of a misnomer)

I don't usually EVER say 'don't listen to your doctor'. I think they are great and the best port of call. But GPs and even obstetricians are ignorant about breastfeeding and you're best off speaking to a specialist.

Google biological nurturing. You let the baby self latch tummy to tummy while you lie back on pillows. Nothing to get up for!

Should add 'many GPs and obstetricians' CAN be ignorant. Of course, many will have fed themselves and might have specific interest in it. But by and large I've had to correct midwives/docs about feeding (most recently about it being safe to breastfeed and be pregnant)

Hi kri5ty and congratulations

I guess you can't make any firm decisions now because you don't know what will happen when your LO is born and you really do just go with whatever works. However I think its really good to have your thoughts in order so you are prepared.

From what I have heard, as long as a bottle is introduced early enough most babies will take it - its when you leave it for months that it can become a problem. The biggest risk in a bottle is if it affects your milk supply but if you express when you would have fed then this shouldn't be a big issue.

If you can why not start breastfeeding and introduce one bottle a day to get your LO used to it and then you can replace certain feeds when you need to.

The only warning I would give about expressing is that it is still tiring work. I expressed for one feed a day from when my son was 2 weeks old but I could never express enough for a full feed during one express - I think this is because I was so concerned about expressing enough that your milk is affected by this stress. Once he was a bit older and I was also using formula at times, if I then expressed I got loads of milk - I am certain this is because I was much more relaxed about how much I was producing.

If you have a really bad episode would you be able to even express? I am only concerned that if this is not the case that your breasts could get very full and this might lead to mastitis, maybe this is something else you should bring up with your consultant.

In any case it sounds like you are doing the best possible by your baby and thats fab - I wish you the best of luck with everything

OMG how is having a baby so confusing and difficult?! I can't afford to buy a pump, and our 'area' NCT doesn't hire, plus for the cost of hiring at £40 pm x 6 months = lots of pennies!

argh!

I agree with others who have said that expressing is hard work. I was never able to express much although I did try in the beginning (to boost supply). TBH I'd BF and try and express once a day from the beginning. That way you'll build up a freezer stash for when your too tired. Once established it's pretty easy though I do a lot of feeding lying on my side with Ds snuggled in, lovely time for a nap :)

I have to agree with TerrysNo2 too. It is hard work - especially in the middle of the night. I found I was up about an hour and a half to 2 hours feeding DS, expressing, cleaning equipment, getting it ready for the morning etc etc. Made it more difficult getting back to sleep too.

There is also the pressure of producing enough and needing to stay ahead of the game (for example if you go on a long journey or out for the morning so can't express).

But I would definitely give it a go as there are advantages - your partner can feed the baby, you don't have the worry of are they feeding enough and of course your baby still gets breastmilk.

They do normally say to only hand express for the first 3 days btw (which I found to be a complete pain in the arse and got about 1ml a time!). So I would definitely try BFing initially!

Scheherezadea, call your local SureStart centre. Ours does pump hires - and it cost £5 for 6 months. NOT £5 per month, but for the whole 6 months. Try some slightly less local SureStart centres if yours doesn't.

kri5ty, congratulations and good luck with everything! Well done on thinking ahead about such things.
What confuses me about your consultants advice is that he/she seems to think that when you're totally incapacitated by your ME, so as not to be able to BF, you would still be able to express? Or am I getting something wrong? I'd say that whilst it's true that you just put the pump on your boobs and turn it on, if you're feeling as bad as you described, you wouldn't be able to do it. You'd have trouble pumping whilst lying down, for instance (BF while lying down is easier, I'd say, though it took us a while to figure it out).

I too had to express-feed initially and agree that it is harder than BF, except if BF is problematic for some reason such as your baby having tongue tie or such.

I second the advice on looking up biological nurturing and seriously considering co-sleeping. I'd say co-sleeping and BF is the least stressful way of getting your baby fed (given no bf problems). If you can just hang on to that as long as possible, that would be great. If it lasts the month, introduce a regular bottle, to get your baby used to bottles. They say that from 2 months is the time when babies might refuse the bottle if they are not used to it. If you have an episode that's bad enough to stop you from BF before that, you'll probably have trouble keeping up supply, because you'll probably not be able to express instead of feeding... so you'd have to introduce formula anyway (and have the problem of engorged breasts/mastitis as someone mentioned above). And getting supply back up after you feel better again is possible, but would be hard work - wouldn't you risk relapsing?

In short, I'd try to do the least-hard-work way of feeding, for as long as possible, and then switch to whatever needs to be done. I think you should talk to a bf consultant about the real risks of baby refusing the bottle should you suddenly not be able to BF anymore (as that seems to be the reason why your consultant advises expressing). Could well be that the risk is not as bad as your consultant thinks.

I expressed exclusively for 5 1/2 months with DD1, who would not BF. I have also been diagnosed recently with ME, though the doctor thought I had probably had it for several years before having children.

I had an Ameda Lactaline double pump, used with an expressing bra, so it could be hands free. And yes, you do pretty much sit there like a cow being milked, once you have adjusted the speed/suction controls to your own comfort. My best friend thought it was hilarious. I started out with a single pump (Medela Swing), but it took a very long time to express, which got very tiring. The double pump really made things easier, I found it took less than half the time to express the same amount of milk (it can be used as a single pump if you ever just want to do one side). Try looking at www.expressyourselfmums.co.uk for expressing products and articles on the subject - I found it very useful.

I did express at night for a couple of weeks, until my HV advised me to stop, because I was exhausted. I would express late at night (11-12pm) then leave it till the morning. My boobs were full, and did occasionally leak and get hard, but it was manageable, and better than the exhaustion of having to feed DD1 at night AND express. It also meant I could get a night off if DH did the night feed sometimes.

I was able to build up a good supply of frozen milk quite quickly, by expressing more than I needed each time, which increased my supply. This also meant I could keep up with DD's increasing appetite, a bit like you would naturally do with BF. You can get the freezer bags from some branches of Boots, or online. I defrosted the bags in water before warming them up to drinking temperature. By 5 1/2 months I had so much frozen milk that I gave up expressing, and just used EBM for a couple of weeks while transitioning to FF at 6 months. I would keep up to a days supply of milk in the fridge ready to warm up too, I always tried to keep one or two feeds ahead, so I wasn't having to express in order to feed.

With DD2 I did breastfeed. I don't know how bad your ME symptoms are, probably worse than mine if you've been advised against BF, but I found BF manageable. To be honest, I felt it was a bit swings and roundabouts with BF and expressing, still not sure which I preferred. I felt I did get more rest with expressing, because DH could do some of the feeding, but there was obviously all the pump and bottle washing to do as well. With expressing, I could see how much milk DD was having, like you can with formula, so it was easier to make sure she was offered a regular amount, which possibly made her sleeping patterns more reliable. BF obviously had the advantage of no planning ahead if going out with DD, and no washing up, but no chance to pass the feeding duty to DH once in a while! I was lucky that both my DDs slept at night, and within about 2 weeks were only having one night feed. I did give DD2 the occasional bottle of EBM once she was a couple of months old, using the Tommee Tippee Closer to Nature bottles, and she had no problems changing from breast to bottle and back again.

Sorry for the essay. Good luck deciding what to do - you have lots of time.

Kir5ty I have supported mothers to breastfeed with ME before, generally they seem to have found directly breastfeeding less onerous as with expressing there is the added work of sterilising and washing pump and bottles.

If you do have a relapse as bad as you have had before I assume you would have someone caring for you, would it be possible for them to bring the baby to you in bed when they needed feeding? You could feed lying down and go back to sleep, then the person caring for you could simply carry on caring for the baby until they were next hungry.

There is also evidence that breast feeding changes a woman's metabolism, producing more energy at less physical cost ('The Breastfeeding Answer Book' 3rd Edition 2003) which might help you.

Going back to what you have said about formula feeding and making bottles up, I had feeding problems and fed directly whilst also expressing and supplementing. Whilst I was doing all this there was no way I had energy to mix formula so I used the small ready mixed cartons, a little more expensive but sterile until opened so you just warm the milk up.

Lots of posts here are talking about expressing enough milk to bf without formula but given what you have said I think this might not be realistic and you might want to think of any bfing as a good thing rather than any formula as bad iyswim?

I have some health issues myself and it was only after I stopped bfing completely that I recovered from the birth, even just expressing is tiring, but I know my DS had some bfing in his first 2 months and that is better than none.

Hi you have been given some good advice here I just want to share my experience. I expressed for all feeds for the first 3 weeks due to dd in scbu, then I did a mix of expressed and bf, I have a fast let down and find expressing easier than many women, but I was really relieved when we could go to ebf. Expressing is a faff compared to bf, mainly the washing and sterilising. I agree with the poster who suggested a mix, and trying to get baby so they can latch with very little assistance, then oh can just lie baby next to or on you and lo can just guzzle away! I was ill for a while with post pg complications, and found it easy once we'd cracked feeding lying down! Good luck whatever you decide. X

You could also try the Association of Breastfeeding Mothers or La Leche League for more advice. I would strongly recommend talking to at least one counsellor who has had experience of supporting mothers in a similar position to yourself. As many have said on here, exclusive pumping is very hard (but not impossible) as your body will not be getting all the subtle feedback from the presence of the baby which helps with supply & composition of the milk, etc, I don't think your partner would be able to help much with the actual pumping, whereas even if you were as good as asleep he may be able to help latch baby on with practice & advise then wind, settle, etc after feeding. It could be worth looking into slings as some women can feed with baby supported in a sling, or a feeding cushion - can be used for feeding with a bottle also of course.

Hi, I haven't read all the responses but just wanted to say that I exclusively expressed for 4 weeks while my DS was in special care. You will need to express every 2-3 hours at first to make sure you have enough supply and then go down to every 3 hours - even during the night. You will need to set an alarm to make sure you don't forget. Doing this I had loads and loads of milk and could express enough for 2 days in one day, so had lots left over that could be stored in the freezer.

I have to say though, that it is a lot harder and more time-consuming to express, do all the sterilisation etc., occupy your baby while you're expressing and then spend the time bottle-feeding her. I don't know anything about your illness but i would have thought that you would have less tiredness/health issues if you just breastfed. You can then introduce her to a bottle at around 4 weeks - even if just one bottle a day at first and then even if you have to give up BFing abruptly she will be fine to take the bottle. That would be my personal recommendation.

Catsycat and msbuggywinkle

Thank you for your posts, its really good to hear from people that have experience with it. My oH took time off work to care for me last time, but i am not sure if we could afford this whilst i was on maternity too... guess we shall see!

I like the idea of the "lying in bed" feed! i will def give that one a go i think
I gues sis hould stop getting stressed about it, if i can;t manage to bf or expressing, then there is always formula, so at least lO wont go hungry!!

I'd say it really is worth trying, it is much easier to go from FF to BF than the other way round! Have you got a local LLL group? LLL Leaders have access to brilliant medical support if they don't have the knowledge themselves.

I was reading up for you last night and annoyingly, there isn't all that much research out there it is mostly reports from doctors who specialise in ME. However, I did find one doctor's report which said that his patients generally didn't have a relapse until 3-6 months post partum and that this is possibly to do with red blood cell volume returning to pre-pregnancy levels at around that time. That sounds really positive to me, by 3 months baby will (hopefully!) be sleeping more at night and not feeding so frequently during the day time which could make coping with a relapse easier.

I think it will be a case of taking each day as it comes, you could consider a post-partum doula or a mother's help for a few hours a week perhaps to give you some extra time, or possibly employing a cleaner for the newborn period to give you more time and energy to focus on the baby.

Anyway, I wanted to let you know that I'll be available on PM or the December thread if you do need any more support!

msbuggywinkle you are a total star :) and that is very good to hear about the 3-6 months! I am loving feeling of being "normal"!! fingers crossed it will stay, or if i do get worse again, hopefully it may not be as bad as before! massive hugs to you, and i am on the december thread too, so i shall see you there again :) I should have a LLL group, i live in manchester so i assume there will be one :) i will google

good luck to you kirsty - you'll be fine I'm sure, like you say LO won't exactly be going hungry!

I have a long term chronic illness, and since getting pg the NHS help has been amazing - a nurse and doctor for my condition who specialise in pg women, there's a respite ward for women whohave just given birth, it would seem unfair for your DP to take time off work - is there any help you can get from SS or home start etc?

x

to be honest i havent looked in to it... i guess there will be though! Its one of the things i have forgotten to look in to :)

Oooo...the Manchester LLL group is fabulous I know two of the leaders well. One of them has about 25 years experience of being a leader, there is nothing she can't do!

The advice you've been given here is fab, but I want to share my experience with you. DS is 12 weeks, he had a tongue tie at birth which made BFing nigh on impossible so I began expressing for him until we could get it snipped. anyway, got TT snipped, made no difference so I'm still expressing exclusivly for him.

It was hard at first, probably harder than BFing "properly", expressing to feed to start with and a couple of formula feeds until my supply caught up. DS was feeding every 3 hours and I expressed after every feed. For the first week I expressed through the night every 2 hours as between 12 and 3 am your hormones peak and this helps to boost your supply. After a couple of weeks I dropped the night expressing down to once at around 1am when DS woke for his night feed. DH fed and I expressed.

By around 6 weeks my supply was great, I was getting more than enough for all feeds and freezing around 5 ozs a day.

I hit the wall at the 8 week growth spurt when all DS wanted to do was feed. I really thought I would have ot give up because I couldn;t keep up, but after the spurt he went back to his usual feed volumes. I now express between 3&4 times a day (I double pump with a hired Medela Symphony), and its going well. Can I point you towards the Kellymom website which is full of really good information for expressing and BFing.

If I had the choice I would prefer to BF, with some expressing, to allow DH to feed and let me out on my own, but I didn;t get that choice. If you are sure you wan tot go down the expressing route ask for a pump while you are in hospital. I didn;t get one until the day I was discharged and by that time DS had shredded both my nipples and had been give formula by a "wellmeaning" MW even though I had the milk there, I just couldn't hand express it out.

Good luck :)

Oh and everyone says about the faff of sterilising the pump etc. There is no need to sterilise bottles to the same extent as if you were formula feeding. I chuck the bottles on the top shelf of the dishwasher apart from when we both had thrush and I had to sterilise in Milton to kill the candida. Temps in the dishwasher are high enough to kill all the other nasties. Obviously if you don't have a dishwasher then you need to sterilise!