About to start crying with worry, I don't know who to believe or what to do, IRT lack of and change in movement. Are there any MW's or anyone on here who can help?

[SchrodingersMew]

Okay, I posted a thread in AIBU the other day about something completely different but the conversation was mostly around this.

I had to go to Maternity Assesment a few days ago because my baby hadn't moved in 2 days. They put me on the monitor and were the MW's and a Doctor had said they wanted me on the monitor as long as possible as there were decels in his heart rate, but by this point he had started moving.

Another Doctor came in about a half an hour/hour later and quickly said that the trace was fine and to go home but he wanted me to go for a scan as he stops moving a lot (I have been in a few times for the same thing) then a MW said maybe he's getting bigger and it's getting harder for him to move.

Next day I had been posting on here and was convinced to go back as he hadn't moved at all again, I phoned the base where my consultant is and was told that they should be monitoring me and to phone them straight away.
Was on the monitor for 20 minutes, only seen a MW this time and she said it was fine and this time said he's probably too small too feel him. (after telling me he was probably too big to move easily a day earlier).

He moved a bit yesterday evening but the movements don't feel the same as they did, no where near as powerful, normally when he moves you can see it and feel it from the outside, it's just not the same at all now.
He hasn't moved at all today.

What do I do? Who do I believe?

We are going to phone again. My Gran is going to come with me (she's a Nurse and wont take being fobbed off at all).

I will do everything that has been suggested here, even if in the end all is fine if I get a valid reason as to why he has completely changed and sometimes stopped his movements it will be worth it.

Thank you so very much for the replies, especially Tangle you have written a lot for me. :)

Go back, be pushy, tell them it doesn't feel right. Tell them (don't ask) that you want a scan to check everything esp if there were decelarations at one point in the heart rate. Good luck!

Thanks, I will do that. :)

Good luck - I hope all goes well. I've been once to the A&E as my baby had barely moved in 48 hours, and usually I feel him well over 100 times a day (yes that does get tiring!! ). So I know how you feel - and it's horrible.

Dr wasn't particularly friendly but I did get a scan which showed my baby was moving loads but I couldn't feel a thing. He must have just changed positions, although I'm still perplexed how I went from feeling everything to nothing.

BUT you are absolutely right to keep insisting - you need your mind put at rest, stress is not good for you or the baby.

Let us know how you get on. Fingers crossed

Another question; my tummy is really quite sore to touch, is that normal?

Bart That is exactly what has happened to me.

Thank you.

Not in my experience, no. Does it feel hot?

A bit but I always feel really warm.

I'd mention the pain when you go to be monitored...which I hope your doing around about now?!

I'm waiting on my Gran coming back from the shops, she's away over with my bank card to get money out for a taxi.

I will mention the pain, but at the start of the week I called up with agonising period like cramps and they just told me to take paracetamol. I've been getting tightenings as well but she said they are probably Braxton Hicks.

When I was on the monitor the MW's kept asking me if I was having contractions while they were looking at the trace. I didn't know what to think of that.

Schrodinger I know it's very difficult but please try and be assertive, glad you are taking your Gran to help stand up for you.

Any changed in foetal movement should be taken very seriously, yes there could be a very valid reason such as baby has changed usual position BUT you are absolutely right to insist on being checked out and them investigatng the situation properly.

I hope you get some proper answers today.

Thanks Random, we're not going to take being fobbed off today.

I'm not leaving until they tell me why he is not moving.

Surely they must have seen something to tell me they wanted me booked for a scan?

It could be that baby keeps laying on the cord or is turned so all the kicks are against the placenta but yes they should be scanning and they should be doing it today not waiting under the circumstances!

Have a look at this website countthekicks.org.uk/ very useful information on there how to properly record movements etc.

You're very welcome :)

(I do feel a little mean suggesting getting them to put a lack of concern in writing - and if you do ask them to print their name and NMC number. As I understand it there isn't the research to support what a "safe" trace looks like, so many MWs hate them as its so easy to miss something that might have indicated a problem. But you can use that to your advantage - and if they're not going to treat your concerns seriously then I think you should!)

I'm really glad you've got your gran going with you, and I hope you get an answer and that it is a trivial as a change in position (maybe just don't suggest that to them, though, and see what they come up with by themselves). Fingers crossed for you :)

The number is engaged just now but we are going to keep trying.

Everything that feels wrong put together just doesn't seem right...

The lack of movement, cramps, tightenings, I feel a load of pressure on my pelvis.

Thanks again for all the advice, we're taking it all in just now and getting ready to be pushy. :)

He's moved a bit now, so going to wait an hour or 2 and see if he picks his pattern back up a bit.

I even think I felt the first hiccup I have felt. :)

I'm a midwife. I'm not going to give you specific advice on your situation as that would be unprofessional and I haven't seen or assessed you. But I'm finding this thread hard to read. Why do you think they are fobbing you off? What does everyone here think a quick scan with a mobile scanner is going to SHOW? Baby waving a flag with "help me" printed on it?

Babies can move less for lots and lots of reasons. You are 27 weeks, your uterus has plenty of room in it. Your baby may have moved position very slightly so his limbs are no longer touching the wall of your uterus when he moves. Your placenta may be at the front or side and so if he has changed position, his limbs may be touching this. He could be moving a lot at night when you are in a deep sleep. He could now be settling into his usual movement pattern for this stage of your pregnancy. Or of course, he could be in some sort of trouble. This is why we do the fetal heart tracing - it is the absolute best way we have of identifying babies who are in trouble. It is an extremely sensitive test of fetal distress (it's problem is it is not very specific, but that isn't a worry in your situation).

We can only rule out the "baby in trouble" reason for lack of movements - and really, this is all we are interested in, clinically. The vast vast majority of the time, we simply don't know why a baby is moving less for some reason, and it sorts itself out within a few days. Some don't, and after your scan a plan or care will probably be made for you which means you go up to the hospital 2/3 times a week for monitoring. If there aren't any signs that baby is in trouble, then you aren't going to be given a concrete reason why a baby isn't moving, because we don't know!

And every time you have been up, a midwife will have written in your notes an analysis of the trace which includes whether the trace is normal, suspicious or pathoological, and she will have signed it. Please don't ask her to print her name or NMC number to say the trace is OK! Saying the trace is OK is part of the basic record keeping, if it wasn't OK you wouldn't have been sent home!

You need a proper scan with a qualified sonographer which will asses growth, blood flow through the umbilical cord and fluid levels around the baby. A wheel-in scanner operated by a doctor who doesn't know how to do those tests will just show you a heartbeat, which of course the midwives can already hear (as can you). The type of scan you need will have to be done in a clinic and therefore you have to wait for an appointment. Ultrasound departments is the busiest department of any hospital and you will have to wait. These sort of scans aren't done in an emergency, they are part of a longer term investigation into a puzzling problem. If there were an emergency with your baby, it would show on the fetal heart rate tracing and your baby would already have been delivered by now.

Of course people will touch your arms and legs and ask questions about whether you can feel contractions etc. it is part of our general examination of someone when they come into hospital in pregnancy. Why so suspicious of that?

If I were you I would go up there today for a monitoring and I would go up there every day that I didn't feel movement until I had had the scan and consultant appointment. I hope they have encouraged you to do that. But don't go up there all demanding that they do "more", give a more thorough examination, do a pointless wheel-in scan. If they are monitoring your babies heart rate (and giving you a general check over) then that is all they can do at the moment, and all they should do until they have the results of a detailed scan.

Best of luck!

GO TO HOSPITAL.

Baby DOES NOT MOVE LESS because there is less room.

ANY changes need checking.

I was sent home after less than 1 minute of listening with a monitor. My baby nearly died and had to be delivered the next day by emergency section.

Thank you for that post.

Really the fobbed off thing was because no one was really explaining what might be happening very well.

First I was told it could be because he's getting too big too move and then it was because he was probably too small. All these conflicting view points are very confusing!

I was only worried about her asking if I was having contractions because she was looking at the monitor at the time and had a slightly puzzled/worried look on her face.

I have felt a little bit today now, so I will wait until it gets to a point where he hasn't moved again. It still doesn't feel at all the same but I guess you are right and he could have just moved position.

Also, another reason I was worried was because the first Dr seemed like she was worrying a bit and said she wanted me on the monitor as long as possible because of the decels, and then another Dr came in an hour later, didn't explain why there was these decels on the trace and just said it was fine, but he wanted me to go for a scan.

I am just confused because of all the conflicting opinions I am being given, and the one about the ice water angered me. I was told to go lie down and drink a glass of ice water as that normally makes them move and wait an hour then if he still hadn't moved go in, I went in and one of the MW's told me that the ice water thing is a load of crap. What if something was wrong and I just wasted an hour for nothing.

Thank you very much for your reply and if I go in I will be as nice as possible, I always am. It's just getting to the stage where I am getting very worried because I don't know anything.

Please don't wait until your baby isn't moving to go in!

Fab But I don't think they will see me unless he isn't.

Of course they will see you! I would def go in because it's not about no movements, it could be less or diffeent movements. If you phone up they would advise you to go in, I'm sure.

I do understand about the conflicting advice, sometimes it is busy so we don't explain things properly. I'm not trying to explain what happened to YOU per se, but if we had a 27 weeker on the trace and there was a small dip, waiting about an hour would be our normal practice. If no more dips then we would take them off. This is because babies below 34 weeks gestation have much more variable heartrates than babies at a later gestation and some dips and slips are normal. Prolonged or repeated decels or lack of variability for a long period would be what we were looking for.

I do understand it must be really worrying and I hope the little one starts moving well soon!

Thanks again. :)

I think there was about 3 decels and that's why I was kept so long. It's just you have explained this very well and that's all I was looking for while I was there.

I will call them just now because I am still getting some cramps that I don't know if they are normal or not.

I know it is an absolute pain being monitored, I had to go in and be monitored every other day for the last 4 weeks of my pregnancy - I never knew if today was going to be the day when they decided to keep me in and induce the baby.

My DS was a very chilled baby - couldn't be asked to wriggle much (saving his energy for post-birth I think ). I was often advised by the MWs on MAU to drink iced water, or hot tea, or eat a sweet biscuit, all of which may or may not have stirred him into action.
Also, I think the MWs were looking for a 'normal' trace for at least 30 minutes, so if baby was wriggling and the heartbeat was Ok from the outset, we'd be out of there 30 minutes later but if things went quiet at the 25min the clock would go back to zero and we'd have to wait at least another 30 mins (and again and again, I was monitored for 4 hours once just to get the magic 30min trace). I guess that your first doctor may have requested a longer trace, and the second one said it was OK to leave just because they were now able to see a nice normal trace (without any decels) for 30 mins.

However - I'd repeat what others have said, keep going back if you have concerns. Just don't expect black and white answers.

Thanks for the reply, I phoned and they told me that it could be this is just getting his normal pattern but to go back up anyways.

She also said on the phone the other thing they could do is get a scan but then told her that someone had already organised one. :)