NCT : dangerous advice???

[VB3]

Dear All , I am wanting some feedback regarding the advice you are receiving/have received from NCT teachers.
I am particularly concerned about NCT attitudes to co-sleeping (it is 'as safe as putting baby in a cot': NOT TRUE, and the LACK of information on:
Cesarean sections/ bottle feeding/ post natal depression/going back to work etc etc
Has anyone found an alternative antenatal course: or would they be interested in contacting me about starting one (I am a GP), with 3kids(including twins)

The teacher often asks people what they want to cover on the course. A few people only want to cover "natural" childbirth and get quite narky if the teacher deviates.

Where I live we have high average maternal age which means intervention is much more likely. All the teachers I know cover c-section and other interventions and cover them thoroughly. But I suspect that's also because of our demographic, educated, middle class professionals who do their own research and speak up and complain if there's even a whiff of woo or lack of evidence based research.

I went to antenatal classes run by a NHS midwife and held in the evenings at my local children's centre. It was £10 for four sessions (though I only made it to two of them as I had the baby after that!).

Like honeydragon, the midwife in hospital tucked my baby into bed with me on the first night, and it was very hard to get him to sleep anywhere else but next to me for ages! co-sleeping wasn't so much a choice as a necessity.

Totally agree re: NCT. My husband is convinced that I was "brainwashed" by NCT sessions and it caused my post-natal depression. Whilst I wouldn't go that far, I agree that the focus on "intervention" and the demonising of doctors in particular was really unhelpful.

I thnk that with NCT it depends so much on who you have; I have spoken to friends who had different teachers and their experience was so different. I would have loved to go to NHS classes but as a working mum who was already leaving work early to get to NCT it just wasn't an option. As others have said I did it mainly for the "social"side but actually that really didn't work out for me, the others had very different experiences and we have all lost touch now (my daughter is 14 months).

I had a C-section (found out at 40+15 that baby was breech), struggled to breastfeed, had a baby with chronic reflux and was totally unprepared by NCT, whose advice was "just co-sleep, that's the answer to everything" - which with a painful, infected C-section wound made feeding lying down impossible, was not helpful. They also gave absolutely sod all information about bottle-feeding - I know that BF is best and worked really hard to breastfeed for as long as I could (4 months) but there was absolutely no NCT info on that. In the end I was saved by a wonderful, practial maternity nurse but thank God I could afford her!

My experience of NCT is that they support a particular agenda, which is fine if you fit that model but otherwise can be very harmful. Whatever their declared position may be if you dig a little deeper it becomes a different scenario and I have direct experience of that.

numptyMum, glad u had good experience- I too enjoyed the social side of nct: 2 of the Mums I met are still friends, and 1 is god parent to another of my children.
'Dangerous' may be overstating things, but balance is important in encouraging good choices

littlefish I agree, and then on to worrying about classes only being on weekdays not evenings?

tbh I have never spoken to my gp about anything like this, would go to health visitor as first port of call with concerns for baby and advise or a midwife??????

My midwife after having DD gave me lots of information about safe co sleeping, as did the community midwife on my antenatal class. So it's not just the NCT giving out this information. NHS practitioners do know that people do cosleep, so although the official advice is don't, they help you do it safely.

Not that I would ever want my baby in my bed, I need it all myself (I'm a spacious sleeper).

Sorry to be cynical. You get all sorts of weirdos newbies scaring people on here.

As a GP would you be happy with treatment based on evidence from 12 years ago? I think I would want something a little more up to date than that. You also need to allow for a slight.........loss of memory say........ about what was actually covered in the classes. I'm pretty sure I would not remember every detail of a series of classes I did 12 years ago.
It does sound like you might have a small axe to grind.

disclaimer: No NCT in my area

I didn't really warm to the NCT teacher, as she wore nylon dresses and sat on the floor in a position which let us all view her knickers with ease. BUT we weren't given any dangerous advice.

She did suggest my PFB could wear clothes washed in bio washing powder after the age of 6 months, though. Bordering on dangerous, maybe.

I agree with you about balance and feel that I received balanced and informative information. However your thread title is far from balanced, and actually, simply designed to scaremonger, in my opinion.

Our NCT class covered c-sections and all the pain relief and interventions you could imagine, nothing was portrayed as being 'bad'

safe co-sleeping is safe, the postnatal ward at my hospital gave me a leaflet on how to co-sleep safely, it's not a crazy thing to do, perfectly normal.

Our NCT classes covered CS in quite some detail (a whole session), PND, going back to work (to a certain extent, but it was a long time away anyway). I don't remember much about bottlefeeding, but it is hardly rocket science. We did discuss co-sleeping and how to do it as safely as possible - to be realistic many parents end up co-sleeping without planning to and causing alarm about it isn't particularly useful to a sleep deprive mother with a baby who will only sleep on her. The information about co-sleeping and the idea that we plan for it allowed us to co-sleep very safely for 6 months with DD in a co-sleeper cot attached to our bed. The only thing I would say about our NCT classes is that the majority of my class ended up with instrumental deliveries and all of the airy-fairy breathe your baby out stuff sounds lovely and I bet our teacher did breathe her babies out at home, but it just isn't reality for many women.

Your initial post doesn't make me think that you would provide any more objective information than NCT classes, you clearly have an agenda just as much as the next antenatal teacher. The only difference is that they have done specific training in antenatal teaching. Being a GP doesn't necessarily make you a good antenatal teacher. Do you have a special interest in obstetrics or experience of working in obstetrics to ensure that you stay up to date (presumably this is provided centrally by the NCT to its teachers)? NCT teachers share ideas for activities and how to engage parents in the sessions. They clearly also involve shed loads of planning and making resources. Sorry to sound so negative, but I think that there is a lot more to it than "I've got children and I am a GP".

MrsTeddy, you are expressing the same opinion as my patient: she had a scare with 6day old baby co-sleeping, going blue etc. THANKFULLY found by Dad and fully recovered. He was furious regarding co-sleeping advice he and his wife had reveived.She is struggling with her feelings of inadequacy etc etc.
Not sure that in some people attitudes of NCT tese achers can lead to 'high' excpectations oof ' natural birth' 'easy breast feeding' etc , and if one 'fails' to meet these expectations one feels dashed and frankly depressed

Oh you're so not for real. I'm thinking journo now after the ever-changing story.

Didn't think Mrsteddy implied that nct caused her baby any harm, more that she didn't feel it prepared her for the reality of childbirth and life with a newborn

Cheers for the comments... never pretended to be expert on anything..suprised by antagonism, but appreciate the feed back. goodnight

right, who wants a tenner on a story somewhere about mn being full of bitchy cows who flame newbies and naive folk for asking simple questions about "parenting" issues?

I'll have 50p on a Daily Fail or Times article about dangerous NCT please. And I'll go each way on them failing to get an official NCT response to allegations in article.

I'm back to cynical again now, you really have underestimated your market on MN, even if you are a long time lurker. But if this has been an idea of yours for a couple of years, you've had time to get a coherent plan together.

I wouldn't have gone to my GP for antenatal support, or even post natal. That's what the HVs are for. And actually where my GP points me because they deal with babies all the time - he hasn't since his daughter was one 12 years ago (you're not him are you?), and as a pp points out, a lot has changed since then.

What a strange OP.

For what it's worth my NCT class was evenings. There seemed to be nothing locally for NHS and very long waiting lists for NCT classes. (ie book NCT class, conceive, etc). Frankly 5 years on I don't remember much apart from the model of the uterus/baby etc - scared the dads

I'll put a bowl of s on it humpty

I had NCT classes and NHS with my last baby (been a bit lazy this time and didn't get around to it added into my PGP making me almost housebound now so finding the idea too daunting) and they were pretty much the same course, which isn't surprising as the NCT run the NHS ones around here.

I found both courses to be balanced, no pressure was put on anyone for anything. On the NCT course I was the most AP person (the only second timer so may be related!) and the course was more aimed towards the others. The NHS class was a refresher course so people seemed to be a bit more realistic on it with their expectations.

When my eldest was about 5 weeks old, newly released from hospital, she was in the children's ward. The nurses tried to get her to sleep as I wasn't getting very far with it and in the end they taught me how to bedshare and how to nurse whilst bedsharing. It made a massive difference and we carried on after we were released. She still comes to our bed now at almost 5 years. Our youngest was bedsharing for about 15 months but she is quite the fidget so we used Dr Jay's night weaning method to get her into her own bed.

I am wondering how much research you've done on bedsharing (the fact you don't even seem to know the difference between bedsharing and cosleeping for a start!) because if you had you would know that safe bedsharing is actually safer than having baby anywhere else. 90% of SIDS happens in a cot, car seat, swing, bouncy chair (anywhere a child is sleeping alone, basically) twice as many babies die in their own room than their parents room.

OP - if you have professional issues with the content and advice being provided by the NCT's course leaders, I think you should be contacting the NCT direct to discuss it with them.

Not stirring it on MN.

I'd agree OP didn't title thread well if wanting to avoid flaming but it's worth unpicking the post itself - I think she is genuine as her only other MN post was on similar topic in the past.

OP - I'm wondering if re co-sleeping the info was taken from Unicef Baby Friendly Initiative? I remember seeing this leaflet when I was looking for guidance on bf DD when she was born last year - I think the leaflet was produced after my DS (the nearly 4yo) was born. At that time many NHS websites also seemed to have similar leaflets/info; even FSID says what to do if you do take baby into bed with you. Yes, definitely safer not to if parents have been drinking, taking drugs/medication, or if baby is particularly vulnerable ie small at birth. But if baby does come into your bed then best to know how to make it as safe as possible... I don't think it is fair to say that the NCT attitude is wrong or that they promote dangerous practice, based on the above. Only perhaps that they DO promote breastfeeding as as part of that, the Unicef Baby Friendly initiative.

If you are a GP - I'm 6ft tall and rake thin.