Ante-Natal Appointments

[mum2b072011]

Hi All,

I am looking for a little bit of advice, my work has started to get difficult with my ante-natal appointments.

Work have told me I have to use my annual holiday for my appointments but I only need to book half a day?s holiday - also, I must make up an extra hour and half for each appointment outside of my normal working hours.

I am currently 17wks 5days and have been told that I am 'High Risk' so need to see a consultant throughout my pregnancy.

It wouldn?t be a problem if I worked local as I could easily go to an appointment and return to work after, however I work in London and have a daily 2hr commute each way I am trying to get the latest possible appointments however my Midwife only works at my surgery one day per week between the hours of 1 ? 2.30pm with a 2hr journey it means I will have to leave work at 11 to get there in time, not good when I start at 9am!!

Another lady in my office is also expecting however because her journey in only takes an hour, she can get early appointments so is not having the same problem as me.

Am I being ungrateful at what they are offering me?

I am having to use all my holiday for appointments and I am not sure if this is fair!

This definitely isn't fair, there's a law against it!

I am pretty sure that they have to honour all antenatal appointments with MW or Dr. When it comes to classes that's a different thing.

You are not being ungrateful - they are being unfair and illegal. You are entitled to paid time off for all antenatal appointments and anything related to your care.

Have a look at this official advice: www.direct.gov.uk/en/parents/moneyandworkentitlements/workandfamilies/dg_10026556

Hope you get it sorted.

You are legally entitled to reasonable paid time off for antenatal appointments. I interpret 'reasonable' as any that are medically advised, rather than antenatal yoga that you have decided to go to, for example. There is absolutely no way they should even have suggested you use annual leave or make time up for your midwife or consultant appointments, regardless of how much time you end up missing because of them.

Because of clinic timings and my commute I've had to take almost half days for most of my mw appointments, unfortunate but that's just the way it is.

Is this a small firm with no HR people? Not that that is even an excuse. Look at this government website that lays out your rights quite straightforwardly and email your line manager/HR. And tell them you want any annual leave you've had to take so far reinstated!

x-posts, slow typing over here!

you are totally allowed the time off - and at full pay, and not out of your holiday. If your boss is being funny then go to your HR department, as they should know the law. And if you feel unwell, then take the day off sometimes as well ! nothing is worth getting stressed over, its you and the baby that matters

It is a small firm that I work for, however we do have a HR department but they don?t seem to be bothered by me having to take my annual holiday!!!!!!

I think that I will go and see him this afternoon to discuss but really do not think I will get anywhere.

At the end of the day, they employed me knowing that I live 2hrs away so surely they have to be more understanding about this.

I was asked to try and change my 20 week scan to be the same day as my consultant?s appointment the other day because it was inconvenient for the company however it was not possible and now I feel bad because it is causing more stress

I really don?t want to be in here today!!! 

Print this off ASAP, read and then take it in with you: what they are doing is against the no if'd or buts

Be strong!

www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_money/employment/parental_rights_at_work.htm#Timeoffforantenatalc

sorry don't know what happened

Ooh this is making my late pregnancy/SPD-fuelled rage even worse.

They have to follow the law and give you as much paid time off as you need for your antenatal appointments. Do not think of 'not getting anywhere' as an option! Email HR and your line manager that link and say you have become aware that you do not have to take AL or make up the time, then add a list of the appts you currently have booked and the time you will need to leave the office each day.

Don't ask them, tell them. Obviously if appts can be rearranged and they clash with something important at work then try to rearrange them, but most of the time you have to go with the time you're given, especially for scans and consultants.

And get them to reinstate the annual leave they have illegally made you take so far.

If they still refuse, raise a grievance.

it is against the law for good reason - don't let them bully you and if needed make your gp aware and they may sign you off if needed if it is causing you stress

Thank you for everyone's advice :)

To top it off, I have just stood over my managers desk regarding work and I saw an email pop up from the FD to HR with the subject 'Ante-Natal appointments'

Great - what is she trying now, please note - this lady is so anti-children / pregnancy and everything she will do anything possible to make things awkward for us!

Gosh .... I just think i felt baby move for the first time ??????????

completely illegal, my boss just looks at the appointment schedule on the front of my notes and i get the day off, also day off to do aqua natal though i don't think they are obliged to do that! your holidays are for rest not hospital/mw appointments, get them told!

Aw was it like bubbles/popping/fish flopping about? It just gets better, I'm sitting here watching what is hopefully my baby's bum (not its head, please!) bulging out under my ribs.

Don't let this get you stressed, you are completely in the right and they are being idiots, lining themselves up for a very clear-cut case of discrimination against a pregnant employee.

Remember, don't ask, tell!

It was like a little flutter/pop (i think) hard to explain - I am going to tell myself it was baby to try and make me feel better

Maybe I should leave HR until tomorrow as feeling quite emotional today, otherwise I will end up sitting there just crying out of frustration and he isn't an approachable HR manager!!

Note to self -

BE STRONG
I HAVE RIGHTS
BE STRONG
THEY CANT DO THIS
BE STRONG
PRINT THIS THREAD OFF

and breathhhhhhhh !!

To add to the above, Looked into this in detail as I also have high risk and lots of appointments and you are definately entitled by law to have time off for your appointments and antenatal care without having to take annual leave. Also you should have full risk assessment at work. Luckily work were ok mainly because I went in holding the information. My appointments clashed with just about everything but we worked round it. Do not be afraid to throw the book at them (not literally ). My consultant also wrote a letter stating I needed close monitoring (not why as work didn't need to know) and a copy of this was given to HR. A/L is precious and they should not be taking it away.
Also e-mail everything and keep copies.

Rant over!

Good luck.

Did you get one of those white bounty envelopes to keep your notes in? Among all the leaflets there is a green one with purple writing, it is about maternity/paternity pay but it also outlines what your employer is required to do in terms of time off for appts etc.
They are required to let you have all time off for appts and adequate travelling time paid.

It had a section you rip off and give to your employer for them to keep to remind them.

If you have one of these, it may be worth letting your boss have it.

Good luck x

Sounds like you've had loads of good advice already but stay strong. My work tried dictating when I could have my appointments and MN posters gave me the balls to tell them where to go. You are legally entitled to paid time off.

If you're nervous about face to face confrontation do it via email. It might be a good idea anyway as it'll leave a written record of their attempt to break employment law.

Try something along the lines of:

Dear xx,

Following our discussion about my antenatal appointments it has come to my attention that I am legally entitled to paid time off to attend these appointments and that I should not have to use my annual leave to attend them.

I will, of course, make every attempt to arrange the appointments around my work schedule but, as I'm sure you appreciate, the NHS doesn't always offer flexibility in these things and some of the timings will be out of my control.

I have attached the relevant government guidance for future reference.

Make sure you get your annual leave back for any appointments so far! Can you work from home at all? This is what I would do in your situation to save going in that day at all. Also could you see your MW at another surgery - you might find a more convienient time for you (irrespective of work)?

I totally bottled talking to them today so i am getting myself prepared and i am going to see HR tomorrow. I have printed off the emails from my boss saying that i have to take Annual Leave and make up the hours so i have back up of what has been asked from me.

TinyDiamond - Yes i did get my bounty pack with that booklet, i will have a look tonight and bring that in work tomorrow.

Cyclebump - After my first appointment my midwife said i would def be High Risk because of my ectopic kidney and i told work the next day so they have known from the start but they dont seem to understand i have to take the appointment given to me! my first consultant appointment is in a couple of weeks so i might ask him to do me a letter as i really feel i need to back everything up.
I even had to show management my notes so he can see that my midwife only works one day per week between 1 - 2.30pm and they just came back with 'That isn't appropriate for the company' !!!!!! Maybe i should speak to hMW and see if i can see her at another surgery.

Breatheslowly - I am not able to work from home :( sometimes i wish i could to get out of the awkwardness in the office..

I feel like tell you to tell your boss:

We don't all live in the dark ages now thank goodness the thought of you in a loin cloth is rather disturbing

We don't live in the dark ages now woman can work and have antinatel appointment without a volcano errupting.

Please don't wind yourself up over this - your gp, midwife and consultant will have come across dark ages bosses like this before - there are a few still out there lurking.

good luck with the rest of your pg

You are entitled to take ante natal appointments as extra days off.

An employer isn't allowed to take them off you as sick days or holiday.

This would apply to anyone working whether they work part or full time, even someone who, say, only held a part time job which was less than 3 hours per week.

I believe ACAS can put you and your employer straight on this. Just look up their website and see.

The only requirement is that you must have either an appointment card from NHS/hosp/midwife which is signed at the appointment or they (NHS) send you letters confirming the appointments and you will have to provide copies to your employer.

They are not allowed to take additional appointment out of paid holiday or sick leave.

And don't be afraid to take this up with your employers. Its most likely that they are simply ill informed over antenatal and maternity entitlements rather than underhand
HTH

Don't panic OP. As I said, my work are similarly crap although not quite with the breathtaking gall of yours. I too work a long way from home (hour and a half each way minimum) and have no way of working from home.

But you know what? It's NOT your problem. Good plan to go straight to HR if you really can't face your boss. Sounds like she'll make you back down.

I too am high risk and have had a few extra appointments. Your green book should have your appointments written in so you can always flourish it but if they demand you show proof that, in my opinion, is a form of harassment. Your green book also has some of your rights with regard to employment written in it.

You're doing the right thing taking your boss's emails. Take in a printout of the government guidance for employers too. I discovered that a lot of the problem at my work is ignorance rather than malice.

Try not to let it stress you out xx

I totally agree that what they are doing is illegal and that you should stand your ground. However, I'm imagining this is stressing you our and you'd like to be able to work with your bosses if possible.

My partner works two hours away so I've been trying to get early / late appointments so that he can come with me. I've found this relatively easy for scans. When the letter comes, I phone the hospital straight away and ask to move it to the following week; our hospital works week by week so they haven't filled those sessions yet so I can choose which time I have. This has meant having my 12 week scan at 13 weeks and my 20 week one will be at 21 weeks, but at least DP comes with me.

Conversely, the only way I can get the early/late MW/Docs app is to book waaaaaaay in advance. This took some persuading (MW in particular seems worried I'll miss an app and ruin her system) but I'm now booked up till about 30 weeks with apps at reasonable times.

I agree you shouldn't have to do this, but if you can find the nuances of your local booking system you might also be able to get the early/late apps.

Good luck

This does sound like a nightmare for you and everyone is absolutely right that you are entilted to the time off, however your employer could make you go in from 9-11 say if you had a 1pm appointment and then make you go back for the last bit of the working day. They dont have to give you the whole day off. Therefore it is probably best if you try and work something like Jenga says, otherwise you will be spending so much time commuting if they insist you do this.