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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

8 weeks, 4mm fetal pole, told to have a D&C

102 replies

enni · 26/11/2010 12:17

Hi,

I am pregnant (I hope) with our first pregnancy. 4 weeks ago, I went for our first scan. At this time I thought I was about 9-10 weeks (based conception - my husband travels alot so I thought I knew the conception date), however as my cycle is irregular it could have been alot earlier or later. The sonographer was very good, and took quiet a bit of time. She could only see the gestational sac, but no fetus or yolk sac on the abdominal scan so did an internal scan. Here she found a yolk sac and fetal pole around 3 mm and estimated that I was 5/12 - 6 weeks. Doing some fast mental arithmetic I thought this was not possible, based purely on when we got a positive pregnancy test (exactly 5 weeks prior). She also couldn't find a heart-beat but was not too concerned about this. She did however refer me to the Early Pregnancy Unit for another scan a week later.

I then did some proper calculations with my calender at home, and spoke to my sisters who all confirmed they ovulate late in their cycles and tend to have very high pregnancy hormones (often the doctors suspecting twins when there is only 1). So I was quiet relieved - 5 1/2 weeks was very possible and everything else (gestational sac, yolk size etc) all aligned with the obstetric information I found on the internet.

When I returned the following week for a second scan, I was seen by a different sonographer on a different machine and my experiences could not have been any different. This time she spent less than 2 seconds on the abdominal scan before declaring "I can find anything but an empty sac, this does not look good, I think you have miscarried." I am not kidding about the 2 seconds either, it was 2 very fast swipes of the wand over my tummy, so fast my husband didn't think she'd looked at all.

She then offered to do the internal scan if I wanted it, but she doubted it would show anything. Naturally I said yes and we had the internal scan. This time however, she did the scan while I was in the same position as I had been for the abdominal scan. In the first scan when we moved to do the internal scan she asked me to lie back on a large foam pad. This placed my body in a very different position to the one I was in now. The sonographer was very surprised to find (and expressed her surprise) a yolk sac and fetal pole, the fetal pole now being 6mm. She confirmed the diagnosis of miscarriage on the basis that the fetus should have doubled in size and not grown by only 3 mm. She tried to find a heartbeat, but could not do so. However contrary to the fist sonographer declared that by now a heartbeat would definitely be present and therefore the pregnancy was not viable.

We were then shown in to see the midwife who strongly counselled us to have a surgical misscarriage as the pain of a natural misscarriage would be too much. I was also told they would not allow me to wait more than 2 more weeks to misscarry due to the risk of infection. They were referring to the fetus in the past tense and definite this was a misscarriage. I was in tears at this point and my husband really panicked and upset - he had wanted this baby so incredibly much and is horrified at the thought of me in pain (yet some how is happy for me to give birth without pain killers - that one I can't work out!!! Bless him :) )

All that said, I went home, determined to let nature take it's course. I also read up on the early days of pregnancy and may obstetric texts indicate the fetus grows 1mm a day after 6 weeks. If I had been 5 1/2 weeks with a 3 mm fetus, then it would only have grown 1mm a day for 1/2 a week between scans. Additionally, the sizes all matched up with several tables in several textbooks on the size of the fetus at different times. The gestational sac and yolk sac were all normal. No heartbeat but from what I read this was also normal. So, after a day I decided that they were wrong, I still felt very very very pregnant and so waited 2 weeks for our next follow up scan.

This week we had that scan. Now, according to the first scan I would be 8 1/2 - 9 weeks. And so far, no abdominal scan has shown anything. From what i read, this isn't unusual particuarly if you are overweight (I am BMI of 33) and if you have a retroverted uterus - a common occurance but one I do not know if I have. I also read that in the early days many things can interfer with a good image - air in the bowels, the fetus at the wrong angle to the ultrasound waves, the skill of the sonographer and so on.

I go in for the scan and have the same sonographer as I had at the second scan. This time she did spend more time on the abdominal scan. Around 3 minutes. Found a sac size of 30mm (this lines up with a pregnancy of 9 weeks) a yolk sac of 6 mm (also good) and a 4 mm fetus. On this fact alone she declared the pregnancy failed and the fetus dead. I told her that previously nothing had been seen on the abdominal scan so could we do an internal one. She refused saying it would not show anything and was too invasive. I told her (the truth) that I have had several internal scans, 2 with this pregnancy and at least 4 or 5 during fertility investigations and that I would be happy to do one, begged her for one but she refused. Surely if the baby had died, it's not going to shrink - i've had no bleeding, no cramps so where did the fetus go? Surely if they found nothing on previous abdominal scans only to find a 6mm pole on the internal scan, then 4mm on the abdominal scan could realistically be larger on an internal scan?????

The report that was written up confirmed a failed pregnancy, stated no heart beat was found. Only she hadn't looked for a heartbeat. I know this because they switch the machine into a different mode and various colours appear on the screen etc. This was definitely not done. When I mentioned this discrepency to the midwife she didn't believe me.

So, contrary to medical advice and pressure, and much to my dear husbands worry and concern, I have come home to let nature take its course. I am convinced that I am still preganant and the the sonographer was rubbish at her job. I am also concerned that her findings were not confirmed by another sonographer nor will did they grant my request for a different sonographer. They have not tested my hormone levels and didn't bother with the normal booking bloods as they didn't see the point if as this was a failed pregnancy.

So, one day I am convinced they are wrong, determined to wait as long as i have to to either have a healthy baby or misscarry naturally. The next day I think I am going mad. I don't want to go back for the next scan in 2 weeks as they have indicated that I will "have" to have a surgical or medical misscarriage at that stage if nothing has happened. I know that I am well within my rights to refuse but the pressure is extreme and unfair. Particularly when they refuse a second opinion. So I decided to self refer to another hospital, knowing it will take several weeks for the paperwork to go through and to get my first antenatal check and scan with the new hosptial. Hopefully by then I will be past 12 weeks and everything will be fine.

Am I making the right decision? I know you only have my side of the storey here, I have tried to be as objective as I can. My gut tells me I am pregnant, but sometimes I wonder if i am in denial and being delusional. I don't want to be stressed for the sake of the baby so thought it might help to get my thoughts out here.

OP posts:
ReshapeWhileDamp · 03/12/2010 17:16

Shock So you are, in fact, healthily pregnant? Oh my god. So they would have terminated a much-wanted, viable pregnancy while refusing you a second opinion or offering you an HCG test, which surely should have happened if there was any doubt whatsoever?

I've been reading this thread, thinking 'she's been treated really shabbily, she should make a complaint about the insensitivity at the EPU and also about her GP not offering her an HCG blood test, but basically it sounds like a MC' - I'm gobsmacked at your great outcome! Smile And really angry on your behalf at the staff. Mistakes can obviously be made, but they should be offering simple, non-invasive blood tests to double-check if you express a doubt.

I'd write that letter, and also one to the press.

(PS, independent MWs are fab! Grin)

lal123 · 03/12/2010 17:25

Jesus!! Of course you should complain! They wanted you to get rid of a healthy pregnancy?? Unbelievable. Did you eventually tell them that you'd had a private scan nad that was why you didn't was a medical termination?

Snowfalls108 · 03/12/2010 17:36

Congratulations! That's amazing news. Heads should roll at your hospital though.

FortunateHamster · 03/12/2010 17:43

Congrats! That's an amazing story. Have to admit that I'm another who read and thought that there couldn't be much hope, but that they should have offered you much better treatment and an internal scan when you wanted it.

Do you have a retroverted uterus then? You might want to find out for sure in case you ever go through this again in the future or in case it could affect further scans for this pregnancy.

BalloonSlayer · 03/12/2010 17:46

Bloody Hell! Congratulations Grin

But Angry Angry Angry at your treatment.

I do think you need to make a complaint.

Errmmmm · 03/12/2010 17:46

Wonderful news Grin

Definitely complain about the care you received on the NHS Sad

I read this the other day and I had a gut feeling that you were still pregnant Smile I'm not into woo particularly, but I seem to have an uncanny ability to predict the outcome of health threads Shock

I'm really pleased for you Grin

AnytimeNOW · 03/12/2010 17:49

So pleased for you!!!! totally agree with the other ladies...heads should roll! thank god you had that private scan!Xmas Smile X

ilovemydogandMrObama · 03/12/2010 17:59

Shock Shock

Good for you for sticking to your guns, and shame shame on the radiographer. Angry

Just out of interest, how many people looked at the scan before deciding there wasn't a baby?

I would ask to be transferred under the care of a consultant for all your ante natal stuff, or they pay for a private midwife.

So pleased for you. Smile

jellyhead188 · 03/12/2010 18:29

I'm so pleased you had a good outcome, its shocking that they wouldn't re-scan you - and not give you a blood test. They don't scan you before an ERPC as far as I know - they just go on the EPU notes.

Really glad all is well. Def complain. xx

TransatlanticCityGirl · 03/12/2010 19:01

I have to say I am shocked. I cannot believe they were going to terminate your pregnancy when it was actually viable. Please please please make sure that in addition to the hospital, you let your MP and the press know about this.

I am only 12 weeks pregnant with a "standard" pregnancy (e.g. no complications or odd issues) but have felt the NHS care has been appauling. Such that we have been supplementing the NHS care with some private care (a bit cheaper that going private the whole way and gives us the reassurance I need). I am lucky that I can afford private care, but I often wonder what women who aren't as well off as I am do, and this is why we need our MPs to understand that the care offered on the NHS is not to an acceptable standard.

So glad to hear you went for the private scan and that everything is ok - congrats!

Janus · 03/12/2010 19:04

Oh Enni, that's amazing news, I feel terrible to say I too thought you weren't going to get good news. I now feel awful I didn't push harder to get a second opinion when I too felt 'what if they'd got it wrong' but can't dwell on that.
I so hope you did tell the hospital you had in fact had a healthy scan result in previous days, it may make them think in future but also would hope they would be suitably gutted at their treatment.
I hope you have a very healthy, happy pregnancy, good luck.

LadyInaManger · 03/12/2010 19:17

Just read this whole thread and am utterly flabbergasted at how you have been treated. This happened to a friend of mine (you're aren't in South England by any chance are you) and she had MC one twin but one was clinging on and they nearly D&C'd her but she insisted on another scan which fortunatley showed a viable baby.

Congratulation's on this AMAZING news - so thrilled for you and good on you for going private.

Def write a very stern letter to the hospital and if possible name the time and date of your scans with that dreadful sonographer to name and shame her - evil cow.

HarderToKidnap · 03/12/2010 19:30

That has made my blood run cold, To think you could have terminated a pregnancy you really want....

I am really pleased things are working out for you though. Please take this further - write to Chief Exec of the Trust, press, PALS etc. Hopefully your new hospital will be much better and you will have more faith in them.

MuffinMouse · 03/12/2010 19:35

I am disgusted at the incompetence you describe!

Delighted for your good news though. Definintely write a complaint letter - at the very least, maybe this could prevent other women going through the same.

Thank goodness you had the resilience and strength to stand your ground. Well done.

But still - Shock Shock Shock

JimmyChoo17 · 03/12/2010 19:39

My gosh I really thought they were going to be proved right.

It's awful. Ttc can be such a hard journey and especially when you have losses along the way.....it makes me wonder how many losses are mis diagnosed! When I lost my first I found a uk website aimed at just that.. It had some really useful information and guidance on what to do next. If I can find it I'll post it on here.

I can't imagine how you must feel knowing this.

all of that stuff aside, a huge congratulations to you and well done on sticking to your guns. I think most of us that posted would have had the op. I'd certainly think twice now. X

JimmyChoo17 · 03/12/2010 19:43

Misdiagnosedmiscarriage.com

SummerRain · 03/12/2010 19:43

Your story doesn't surprise me much unfortunately.

With dd i had negative pregnancy tests but had lots of symptoms and no period for over two months so my gp referred me to the hospital who did an abdominal exam, an internal exam, more urine tests and blood tests and declared i had miscarried the pregnancy.

They sent me for a scan to assess if i needed a d&c, the external scan showed nothing at all, not a thing, so the very lovely sonographer offered me an internal scan which i happily agreed to. DD was 9+4 with a strong heartbeat and litle bud arms and legs and the rest of the pregnancy was completely normal.

When i was pregnant with ds1 18 months later i discovered they'd filed me as a miscarriage and never even followed up on the scan results Shock

Congratulations on your pregnancy and the best of luck Smile

I hope you raise hell with that hospital btw... they should be dragged over the coals for their negligance

ItalianLady · 03/12/2010 19:48

I am so pleased things worked out well for you and actually feel close to tears Blush.

I was told I had lost the baby and was booked for a D & C. Luckily an emergency came up and I didn't have it. Baby is asleep upstairs.

jasmine51 · 03/12/2010 19:49

Enni - are you prepared to say which hosp this was?
I have not been treated anywhere near as disgustingly as you but with my 12 wk scan tomorrow, I am working myself into a state because of the attitude of the staff in the maternity unit I have to go to, the appalling standard of care and lack of compassion - sounds familiar.

JimmyChoo17 · 03/12/2010 20:07

Yes which hospital?

When I had my d&c I was given incorrect info and told something else had been found and told to prepare for the worst. The registrar laughed it off after I spent 5 days bleeding in tears fearing the worst! Wouldn't be surprised if was same place!

spidookly · 03/12/2010 20:22

Well done enni - you were amazing.

I dread to think how compliant I would have been in your situation. I seem to be very susceptible to being pushed around by HCP.

That is such wonderful news, I'm delighted for you :)

Best of luck with the pregnancy.

And AngryAngryAngryAngry at those incompetent butchers at that hospital. They are bullying women into aborting viable foetuses.

Unless somehow they happened to be extra incompetent just for you, there have been other victims of this and they won't have had so happy an outcome.

It makes my blood run cold. The utter, utter bastards. It's the banality of evil.

An internal scan is too invasive???!!!!

But you'll have to have a D&C? Angry

Nicplus1and1baking · 03/12/2010 20:28

Hi enni

I was reading through your post and all the replies and was so releived to read the last post.

Congratulations thank god you went with your instinct and stuck with it.
Heres to a happy healthy pregnancy

mrsbigw · 03/12/2010 20:38

Wow.

Sorry you & your DH have been through such hell but I have to say what a lovely 'next chapter' to your story :) I am so very happy for you!

I have a feeling the hospital might take time to listen to you now...go straight to the top with your complaint.

frostinathesnowgirl · 03/12/2010 20:40

Enni. OMGoodness!!! Xmas Angry Xmas Shock Xmas Angry I am disgusted at the attitude shown to you and the seemingly sheer incompetence of the hospital staff. Hats off to you for sticking to your guns and intuition and not letting you and YOUR BABY!! be railroaded into towing the line and having the procedure.

PLEASE find the courage to complain through all the official channels taking it to the highest level. Do this for all the other vunerable women who might end up in the same situation only without the happy ending.

I wish you well and congrats to you and DH.

mummysleepy · 03/12/2010 21:23

OMG!! Enni
I can't believe what you have gone through, you are amazing and I am so glad to hear your good news.

I think its really important that the EPU hears the full details of this- they need to learn from your experience and change what they do as a result so that noone else is treated the way you were.

I had a mmc but all my symptoms had gone and what should have been a 10week size foetus was only 5 week size so was pretty clear cut and I had ERCP but it makes you wonder if other people have had treatment when the pregnancy has been viable.

please tell the EPU or get your GP to let them know if you can't face it. I am sure your GP would be happy to help

all the best for the rest of your pregnancy Smile