TimesOnline has just published an article on the NEW swine flu vaccine - and recommends that pregnant women ask for this in addition to last year's if they had it.

[JosephineClaire]

Has anyone else heard this?

I had a swine flu vaccine at about 10 weeks - I'm now wondering if I need another at 34 weeks...

No probs, important to challenge misconceptions when they seem to occur.

GWIW my child is anything but better off any othewr way: he's not the withdrawn sort but full on happy loving teddy ebar, same dx but a different way of meeting criteria such as social difficulties.

I am blessed to have him; he is a joy.

But i'd rather he had life chances.

I know sancti thank you for understanding and not feeling I had any malice in what I said because I didn't.

You sound like a great mother we all want the best for our children I would be upset if my children did develop autism however I would still feel blessed to have them. As I know you do.

me23 women have had silver fillings whilst pregnant for decades, I'm sure your baby will be ok. However there is a greater exposure to mercury when fillings are first put in and when they are removed, and most dentists nowadays would rather put white ones in with pregnant patients to err on the side of caution.

Me- they've been using silver fillings for 150 years I'm sure you and your baby will be fine don't worry.

I have read this thread, however I still don't feel like I have all the information I need to make an informed decision. I am 19 weeks pregnant, by the way, due in Feb/Mar 2011.

So far we know that:

• the SF vaccine isn't tested on pregnant women, and can't be because of ethical issues. There are, however, concerns with regards to the effects on unborn babies - concerns shared by some members of the medical profession as well. Fair enough, these risks are minimal, but this doesn't mean they don't exist.

• SF can be very dangerous if contracted in pregnancy, both for mum and baby. The risks so far seem to be greater than those of the vaccine.

However, it does seem that only a minority of the pregnant women who catch SF will have complications, for most the infection is mild.

Could anyone tell me:

• out of all pregnant women catching SF, how many develop complications? And out of these, how many have underlying health conditions? In other words, if I get SF am I more likely to have complications or not? And is my baby more likely to be affected than not?

• is swine flu more dangerous than "normal" flu? As far as I understand, pregnant women without underlying health conditions had so far not been advised to have the usual flu vaccine.

My concern is that no one can tell me there are no effects on my baby if I have the SF vaccine. I am sure the risks are minimal, but on the other hand I'm not sure how likely it is for my baby to be affected if I catch swine flu - hence what I said in the beginning, that I don't feel like I have all the information I need to make an informed decision. Also, I can't help being a bit suspicious of the fact that thimerosal is forbidden in the US, but it is one of the components of the SF vaccine.

Bankhol - you're asking the right questions, though I suspect you won't get straight answers.

Here's the email address for the department of health vaccine policy team, perhaps they can provide more information: [email protected]

Thimerosal was in the GlaxoSmithKline manufactured H1N1 vaccine Pandemrix that was offered to pregnant women last flu season. There was also a Baxter vaccine that didn't have thimerosal in it. Don't know who makes the new seasonal flu vaccine or if it contains Thimerosal. Have asked that question.

Scarab: good answer. But the squalene too. Was that taken out?

Hope you get some of the info you need bankhol. Doh will probably distort the dangers of sf and minimise the vaccine though so it's still up to you to make the call in the end.

Celvepan did not contain Squalene or thimerosal.

I would really like to know what the seasonal flu brand vaccine is called this year and what is in it.

what about Pandemrix?

well that was a quick google

Yes, Pandemrix has mercury and ASO3, squalene. I knew it did. I knew there was a reason people said insist on Celvapan last year.

Fluvax (marketed by pfizer) is linked to fits in under fives so it's recommended that children don't have that.

POFAK that's correct - Celvepan didn't contain any adjuvants - it was manufactured by Baxter. But whether your GP stocked it or not was another question. Needed refrigeration...couldn't get it in for one person only...blah blah blah.

Isn't it outrageous that pregnant women weren't told about and given the option of an adjuvant free vaccine? I was told the Baxter vaccine was for people with a chicken egg allergy.

It looks like the brand is Fluvirin.

This is from Leeds MHS

"In the 2010/11 influenza season some patients may need a trivalent seasonal flu vaccine AND a monovalent H1N1 (Swine) flu depending on their vaccination history and health status.

Immunisation is recommended for adults and children over 6 months of age where VALID consent has been given to receive the vaccine and who are included in JCVI recommended clinical risk group and/or have been diagnosed with any of the following conditions:
? Healthy pregnant women not in at risk group who have not already received the monovalent H1N1 (swine) flu vaccine
? Pregnant women in at risk groups (regardless of whether they have received monovalent H1N1 (swine) flu vaccine in the past)"

(plus others including asthma sufferers)

then

"None of the influenza vaccines for 2010/2011 season contain thiomersal as an added preservative; however the SPC for Fluvirin states that it contains traces of thiomersal."

"Novartis influenza vaccine (Fluvirn® and generic version) are not licensed for use in children under 4 years"

plus

"There is an increased risk of febrile convulsions in children aged under five years with the seasonal influenza vaccines marketed by Pfizer Vaccines (Enzira® and CSL Biotherapies generic influenza vaccine).
It is recommended that another brand other than the two mentioned above are used in children under 5 years of age."

Thank you Appletrees and Scarab. I have found the following on the MHRA's website, a lot of information:

www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/l-unit1/documents/websiteresources/con2023970.pdf

I now have another question: if the SPC says Fluvirin is not recommended until after 4 years of age, how comes all pregnant women are advised to have it?

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Flu-jab/Pages/How-does-it-work.aspx

I think we need to know why under 4 is contraindicated. We know with one of them it's due to febrile convulsions. But not with this one.

Yes I think it was most unfair that Celvepan was so difficult to obtain last year. IIRC in Switzerland this was the brand they gave to pregnant women. I'm not trying to scaremonger, and many people had pandemrix safely, but it would have been better to have a degree of choice.

I found a publication on the Dept of Health website about this and there are several possible brands. These are all the ones that will be supplied to the NHS this year:

Supplier - Name of product - Vaccine Type
GlaxoSmithKline - Fluarix - Split virion, inactivated
MASTA - Imuvac - Surface antigen, inactivated, sub-unit
Novartis Vaccines - Agrippal - Surface antigen
Novartis Vaccines - Begrivac - Split virion
Novartis Vaccines - Fluvirin * - Surface antigen
Pfizer Vaccines (formerly Wyeth Vaccines) - Enzira - Split virion Inactivated
Pfizer Vaccines - Generic influenza vaccine - Split virion Inactivated
Sanofi Pasteur MSD - Inactivated influenza vaccine - Split virion
Sanofi Pasteur MSD - Intanza - Intradermal, split virion
Solvay Healthcare - Influvac - Surface antigen, inactivated, sub-unit
Solvay Healthcare - Imuvac - Surface antigen, inactivated, sub-unit

None of the influenza vaccines for the 2010/11 season contain thiomersal as an added preservative. However, Summary of Product Characteristics (SPC) for Fluvirin* states that it contains traces of thiomersal that are left over from the manufacturing process.

The responsibility for ordering seasonal influenza vaccines for the target population lies with general practices. Surgeries need to make their own arrangements with suppliers to ensure they have sufficient vaccine for their patients? needs and to agree the delivery schedule with their supplier(s).

I assume that means it is up to each health practice which ones they order/use.

The above info is quoted from:
www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_116943.pdf page 6

Thanks Penguin, that's helpful.

I just had the flu jab on Friday. I was very nervous about getting it done as I was unsure about how well tested it was etc. The nurse was pretty unsupportive and I wouldn't recommend asking the nurse for advice if my experience is anything to go by- my docotr was excellent though.
However I had to think about how I would feel if I did get flu and it caused damage to my baby and I don't think that I could cope with not getting it and then something happening to my baby if I got flu. We're lucky in this country to have this as an option and I would say that you should get the jab as it was used on lots of pregnant women last year who came to no harm, but some pregnant women who didn't have the jab experienced complications if they caught flu.
It is a personal decision though and I respect each individuals decision :)
On a side they stopped giving pregnant women the swine flu jab from the 1st October. I just go the regular flu jab which they said included protection against swine flu too. The jab contains the 'inactive' virus which means the flu bugs are dead and pose no threat- pregnant women should never get the 'active' version which is taken as a nasal spray though.

I caught a flu type illness when pregnant last year. I had a fever that I couldn't shake for almost 3 weeks, I had to take paracetamol every day to keep my temperature around/below 38 degrees, and a steroid inhaler so I could breathe. Paracetamol has it's suggested risks, as does fever during pregnancy, the inhaler probably did too but beig unable to breathe terribly well made taking that an easier decision! It was not fun. I normally have a flu jab as I have (mild) asthma. I wished I'd had one that year (couldn't because policy at the time was not to give it it pregnant women), it was quite a worrying time.

So I'd take up whatever flu protection was offered within reason.

Malaria was first discovered in 1887 by alphonse lavern however fossil evidence shows that mosquitoes have been here for 30 million years. Malaria was certainly around before any medical paper was written.

Autism was a term first coined in 1911 although it was used to describe a schizoprenic aloness.
Kanner In his own 1943 paper says:

"these characteristics form a unique syndrome not heretofore reported yet it is probably more frequent than indicated ... It is quite possible that some children have been viewed as feebleminded or scizophrenic in fact several children in our group were introduced as idiots or imbeciles. One still resides in a state school for the feebleminded and two have previously been considered as schizophrenic"

Kanner himself didn't beleive it was new simple un reported and mis diagnosed.

Also the California department of disability services 1992 disability report in the age range of 62-99 had 4 people who met autism criteria DSM-III-R. This means that these people were autistic before 1930 at the earliest.

These are my personal reasons why I don't beleive that thiomersal in vaccines caused a new syndrome called autism.

Dylthan autism cases have risen hugely in the last two decades. I don't claim to know why they have risen and do not attribute that to any particular trigger, there probably being mupltiple ones, both environmental and genetic, but one can't really deny that fact.

I'm not in any way denying that fact. I just don't think it was a newly discovered syndrome caused by vaccines I've said before better research needs to be done to find the actual causes rather than saying " well we know the reasons now it's all mercury poisioning from vaccines"