Breast feeding advice!

[nunnie]

I have every intention of trying to breast feed again, however I am a bit concerned and worried it will end the same way it did with DD.

In the beginning I thought I was doing fine, midwife even checked as DD was a low birth weight and the doctor wanted to make sure she was latching and getting enough before we were released (well let home not released, it wasn't like a prison).

Anyway after being home a day my nipples became really sore, then it just got worse and worse, midwife checked every visit and said it looked like she was latching on fine, however she said that my nipples were telling a different story.

She told me to try and express and see how much I could get off, so I did and got less than an ounze from each. After a while I was leaking blood and the pain became unbearable, and when DD went to breast I would be in tears it was so painful. Anyway went to Doctor who said it was thrush, and gave me some tablets and some oral medication for DD. I hadn't been home 10 minutes when the midwife rang and told me not to take them as they would dry up my milk.

Anyway long story short, I was diagnosed with PND when DD was 4 weeks old, and everything became too much, so I am ashamed to say I transferred to bottle feeding.

Now I am pregnant again and really want to try again.

What do I need to aid in it hopefully working better for me.

What cream is best, and do you put it on before and after feeds sorry very rusty.

Sorry if this sounds dim, and needy, but it is easier asking people on here than family as very few of my family breast fed.

I should say I wasn't ashamed for bottle feeding, I was ashamed at myself for being so determined to breast feed and never thinking of failing at it, and stopping it and making myself feel like I should have pushed myself harder.

bump

I feel for you on this one - your situation sounds very similar to mine, but I only made it to 3 weeks x

DS was nick-named the Dyson, as there was no loss of suction, and I found he wanted feeding nearly every hour sometimes more. I nearly lost one of my nipples, it was so badly cracked.

But I'm gonna give it another go; my m/w is a bfing counsellor, so I'll be battering her for advice!

I vaguely remember being recommended something called Kamillosan, it's made with chamomile so very soothing. Also, rubbing breast milk into your nipples is supposed to help.

It sounds like you didn't get very good support last time round. Try posting in the breast and bottle feeding section, there are some very knowledgeable people there and you should get some help. Good luck.

Thank you.
Didn't know about that forum till I had written on here, really should get out of this part more often

I have the same fears about feeding my second although I did make it through the first horrendous 8 weeks and continued breast-feeding. I had thrush and once it had gone my nipples healed totally within 2 weeks and got better so much quicker. I had cream and DS had drops, I would hope that a Dr. treating a breastfeeding woman wouldn't prescribe something that would dry up her milk but I suppose you never know.

I would say that during my antenatal yoga we have had 2 sessions with a breast feeding counsellor who has pointed out that the basic training a midwife health visitor gets for breast feeding is very limited unless they take a specific interest and do more training.

I was told my latch was fine but was still in agony with huge holes in my nipples. I will never know if it was the latch and we just got better or whether the thrush caused all the problems but would definately get outside help this time around if it happened again. I did have inverted nipples which I'm sure didn't help.

Go into it with the postitive attitude you had last time and seek help if you need it. Dealing with PND alone must be very hard so I really don't think you should feel down on yourself for not continuing to breastfeed, many many people without it give up too. Good luck with feeding this baby the way you want to

For soreness I was prescribed Lansinoh which is fantastic but it won't help with infection just sore nipples. Hopefully this time you won't have infection.

I think the best thing that helped me survive the pain of the first few weeks other than the lansinoh was getting help from Mumsnet (tiktok on the feeding section is excellent), my local NCT coffee morning who had a breast feeding councillor attending and the local breastfeeding support group at the surestart. Try and find out if you have any of these locally before you give birth then you have a support network that hopefully you can rely on.

I personally found the MWs and HV extremely unhelpful. In fact while in hospital trying to get feeding established one MW had me in tears with her attitude. if my mum hadn't been there to tell her to bog off (actually is was a bit stronger than that) I think I may have given up. (Thank god for feisty mums )

Finally, if you bottle feed again you are not a failure if there's one thing nobody told me is that it's difficult it may be natures way but it's no way straight forward!

Might sound like a daft question, but are there any steps you can take to prevent thrush?

Or is it one of those things that if you're gonna get it, you're gonna get it?

Do be aware that midwives, health visitors and even GPs may not actually much knowledge of medications. I always check everything myself online - kellymom and motherisk are great resources for when pregnant or breastfeeding.

I had a similar problem with the pain and blood but thankfully only one nipple, and it lasted just a couple of weeks. Post birth I felt different parts of my body were competing to be the most excrutiatingly sore. It really helped to have a close friend who happpened to be going through the same thing at the same time. Coinsidence for me, but if you don't have someone I'd suggest finding a breast feeding buddy. It gets you though all the uber pro BF folk who tell you you are doing it wrong if it hurts etc etc. Sometimes natural things do hurt - I found child birth a little sore if truth be known. Having someone real to talk to, who didn't judge me or try to give me professional advice really helped and I BF DD for 9 months and really enjoyed it after the first month.

Anyway, I found the lansinoh was good, but I also would try and express out a little milk before allowing DD to latch and I would leave milk to dry on the nipple afterwards before putting on the cream.

I was big on the sick in hair and one boob hanging out look for the first 4 weeks really - nice. Obviously I kept this to the confines of my own home.
Might not get away with it this time as I will have to pick DD up from Nursery School and they may frown on such a dress code.

Oh yes and cotton reusable brest pads as they were definately better at keeping the area dry than the disposable ones.

What evey you decide to do, don't give yourself a hard time. If you want to have another go I say do it with some friendly support, but if you feel pressured into doing it remember there a plenty of happy, healthy bottle fed babies out there. There is a mum attached to those boobs and that's needed way past weaning!

I agree with japhrimel, always check what you are told by MW, HV and even GP's online - but make sure you are using reliable sources. It's always good to be well informed.

You'd be surprised how often the (general, one-size-fits-all) advice given by MW and HV
will directly contradict (specific, tailored) advice given to an individual woman by a GP- and how often the MW/HV will tell the woman the GP's tailored, individual advise is wrong! (DH is a GP and has many little battles with MW/HV over minor but important issues of this nature).

I'd be concerned at the thrush advice (and it's quite common to get it on the nipples, as the baby often carries it in their mouth) - when you say the MW told you not to take the prescribed tablets, was she telling you that because the GP had had second thoughts about the tablets, or because that was HER opinion? In that situation I would have phoned and spoken to the GP - as he/she maybe had good reason to prescribe it even if it may affect milk production (ie, your thrush was so bad that a small risk of reducing milk supply was worth taking as you couldn't continue to feed while in so much pain).

Better luck next time, all you can do is try, you gave it a good go last time and sometimes things don't work out, but it doesn't mean you will have the same problems next time.

I really don't know she never said she had been told to contact me, she just sounded concerned, which worried me. Didn't think to ring the Doctor to be honest, I was just so exhausted and fed up by this time, I just wanted everything and everyone to go away. She did tell me that I shouldn't give the medication to my DD either as she had seen no sign of thrush at the previous visit, 2 days before, in this instance I didn't listen, as the GP had been very thorough in checking dd's mouth and seemed to think there were signs of thrush and I didn't remember the MW looking in her mouth at all last time she had seen her.

I was in a bad frame of mind and just needed someone to give me a quick cure but instead I was just given conflicting advice, and the MW and the HV just used to say keep at it, it will be worth it in the end just thinking about this again is upsetting me!

Nunnie,

Don't get upset, but use the experience and remember it for next time.... maybe it can be used for something positive next time.

It does sound like the MW kind of screwed you up with bad advice tho'.....

The baby would have (likely) re-infected you if her thrush was not treated at the same time, common sense to treat both of you.

Sorry you had this conflicting advice, it must have made things worse for you. Having a NB is hard enough without dealing with this kind of extra crap.

Nunnie, don't be upset you are doing the right thing thinking about it now. You are arming yourself with the information and resources to help later should you need it.

Plus, bear in mind you've been through it before and the whole newborn baby situation is not all new and hopefully that may give you the chance to deal with these so called professional people.

Nunnie, my BF story for DS is similar to yours but I didn't make it as long, although I managed to express for 8 weeks. But after this time my nips were still bleeding so resorted to FF. I didn't have thrush but had open wounds on nipples that got infected & ended up with mastitis. It is excrutiating & I felt such a failure as during all prenatal classes BF is made out to be such a natural pain free thing. I didn't actually know it could be painful! My midwife & HV also said latch was fine & that I was not to tense up & just relax!!!
I'm really concerned that the same will happen with this baby. Unfortunately so far I've not found any product or ideas that help toughen nipples. Our pharmacist told me that in the old days people used to put alcohol on their nipples before baby was born as it toughens up skin, but I don't really like that idea . I have been told that scar tissue will be tougher/harder than before so I'm hoping it will go alright. But agree with other posters who recommend finding out about BF groups etc before DC arrives.
Good luck & hopefully this time round it will be a doddle!

Nipple shields, I have really sensitive nipples and DD1 was a nightmare I ended up expressing and then giving it in a bottle.
With DS1 and DD2 I used shields, I fed DS1 for 9 mths and only gave up as was pg with DD2. The midwifes did turn up their noses as they argued the baby takes in air (like a bottle ) it just made sure I winded them afterwards.
I did try all the creams random bits of advice and seeing the la leche counsellor but nothing helped im now 38.5 with DC4 and have the shields in my hospital ba ready and waiting.

Nunnie, I could have written your post. Your experience sounds almost identical to mine (not sure that I had thrush, but I ended up with two bouts of what was called mastitis though I'm not so sure - both breasts simultaneously scarlet and temp of 103). I don't think I actually suffered with PND, but I had certainly reached the end of my tether when I gave up bf'ing at 5 and a half weeks.

Anyway, I'm due my second in 4 weeks' time, and I'm also very anxious about the feeding. However, I'm determined that I'm going to feel calmer about it this time, even if I do end up not being able to feed. My son thrived on formula (I know that doesn't 'prove' anything, but still...), and I know that stopping bf'ing last time basically saved my sanity and my relationship with my child. I know it's a very unfashionable thing to say on MN, but my only regret is that I didn't stop sooner - it was quite clear that bf'ing was not working for me or my baby, and that even though I had excellent support from well-trained counsellors, there was just nothing anyone could do to help (and believe me, I tried everything).

So I will definitely be trying again, but even though I will try very hard to make it work, I will nevertheless also be better able to make a judgement about when/whether it's time to stop, and this time I won't feel so guilty if I have to.

Actually, I've been thinking of posting to ask for advice in the feeding topic as well, to ask about scarring on nipples. The huge holes in my breasts took about three months to heal last time, and I still have a considerable amount of scar tissue. I'd like to know whether/how this will affect my attempt to feed this time around - for example, does the scar tissue still contain holes for the milk?? Bubbakin, are you able to say any more about what you've been told about scar tissue?

The beginning of my story is really similar to yours. DS was a ventouse delivery and a very sucky baby. My nipples were bleeding before I even left the hospital and I felt like I was getting conflicting advice.

Feeds became unbearably painful to the point where I was crying before every feed in anticipation. On day 17 I went to see the breastfeeding counsellor in desperation, pain, and about to give up.

Unlike the hospital staff, the bf counsellor was able to get DS to attach correctly and identify that he was finding it difficult to feed from one side (maybe due to the venouse). She advised that I would be best to try nipple shields to help him latch correctly and to reduce my pain. The ones in the shops were too large for me but the small medela ones were great.

I also expressed alternate feeds for about 3 days to give my nipples a break.

These measures (and a lot of lansinoh) were an instant improvement and relief! It took about another 6 weeks to get everything working well and a couple of weeks longer to wean us both off using the nipple shields.

In the end DS was bf for 16 months.

Don't feel bad about what happened last time - it can easily go either way and I was lucky to get the right advice at the point that I would have otherwise given up.

Good luck and remember there is a lot of good advice in the breastfeeding threads when the time comes.

ElusiveMoose,
Don't know anything else about scar tissue. Although one of the reasons I suspected I was pregnant was milk production!! My boobs were really big & when I was in the shower I just squeezed boob & milk came out & it seemed to be coming out of lots of different places so assume scar tissue doesn't block milk ducts. (I'd done 3 pg tests & all come back neg but was certain I was pg, hence the boob squeezing - it's not something I make a habit of doing!!!!)

I tried nipple shields, but the preassure of my nipple being sucked into them was painful and there was still more blood than milk.
I suppose I could have been using them incorrectly though.

Do you know, no-one even mentioned nipple shields to me?

I was encouraged to express whilst still in hospital and expected to carry it on when I went home.

Little wonder I couldn't keep it all going past 3 weeks!

All this advice is sooo good to know, I'm feeling so much more positive about it this time round.

Nunnie, I had exactly the same experience with nipple shields. And expressing just never worked for me either (couldn't get any milk out, basically).

Thanks Bubbakin that's interesting. Think I'll post a quick thread about it as well, and see if anyone else has useful tips.

My scars are at the sides of my nipples not on the front bit where the milk actually comes out so couldn't comment but can't help but think it will a bit harder to stertch it, although they healed totally by 10 weeks and I fed for 15 months with no trouble.

Nipple shields got me through one very difficult day, but my nipples never bled even though they had big holes in them.

Really recommend Clare Byam Cook's book - what to expect if you're breastfeeding and what if you can't. Invaluable. She also did a video too which is helpful and based on real case studies. She is seriously knowledgeable and dispels a lot of the myths pedalled by Midwives and HVs who often talk gubbins.

Nipple shields were great for me at the start when I got a cracked nipple. And after a while it became easier.

I think, in all of this, you need to remember that some mothers (and babies) take to breastfeeding well and others don't - because they don't produce enough milk etc. Just don't beat yourself up. If you weren't producing a lot of milk, it would have been wrong only to BF.

BTW - if you're in London (or close), Clare Byam Cook will come out to do a home visit or you can go to her house. Worth every penny in my opinion.

I only managed with nipple shields after the bf counsellor had shown me how to use them and advised me of the right size. I tried them before I saw her and it was a nightmare! Not sure they work for everyone though.

use lansinoh from before you nipples are even slightly sore (though that's difficult if they're red raw after the first feed as mine were) you can slather as much of it on as you like when you like - it's fine for the baby.
I didn't use nipple shields, but I know people who swear by them.
stay as naked as possible - smear some milk over your nipples at the end of each feed and let them air dry. staying naked should help a little to avoid thrush too, warm dark damp environments is where it flourishes.
find people whose expertise you trust now, and contact them for advice when you need it.
trust your body.