HELP! Am ready to cry re: ds' potty training.

[TAFKAtheUrbanDryad]

We started to potty train ds when he was 2 and around 5 months - he instigated it, we had had the potty in the living room as a permanent fixture and told him what it was for. One day he just started to take his nappy off and do wees in the potty. So I left him with nothing on in the house and put pull-ups on him when we were out and about.

The trouble was that the nursery he was in at the time (I had numerous threads on it) were beyond rubbish, and would not take him to the potty/toilet and would leave him in soiled pull-ups for hours at a time until his bottom would be so sore it would bleed.

We took him out of that nursery and after a little while enrolled him in a really good playgroup where he flourished. We started to make progress with his potty training, by taking him to the potty every 15 minutes and basically EC-ing him, although he was far too old. We made real progress and moved onto pants. The issue then was really with poo - he would refuse to poo in the potty and would hold it in either until we put his night nappy on, or until he exploded. After an incident at playgroup where he literally exploded - twice - and they had to evacuate the room to decontaminate it, we went back to pull-ups.

Now we are at the stage where he is 3, and still in pull-ups for preschool. His teacher has to change him out of dirty pull-ups which must be horrible for her - she is a teacher, not a nursery assistant. He is the only child I know who has to wear a pull-up when we're out. There is no question of him being dry at night, and we often have to change him out of a dirty nappy in the night because he will hold a poo until he cannot hold it any longer.

He is dry at home, so long as he has nothing on his bottom at all. No pants, no pull-up. He will take down loose tracksuit or pyjama bottoms to go for a wee on the potty, usually, but if he has pants on then he will just wee or poo in them. He has maybe poo'd on the potty three or four times. He knows that if he does a poo on the potty he gets a gold star to wear on his t-shirt, but I'm wary of offering too many incentives because really it should just be the norm to use the potty/toilet, shouldn't it?

I just feel like I've fucked this up monumentally, with a bit of help from his old nursery. I have no idea where to go from here. If we're out and about he wears a pull-up and I will put him on the toilet but he won't go. He also won't tell me if he needs to go, whether he's in pants or pull-ups, but I know that he knows when he needs to go, and I know that he has control because he will hold poo until he's got a nappy or pull-up on.

Sorry this is a bit of a ramble, just trying to give a full picture. It's a horrible nightmare and it's making us all miserable.

god really sorry about your bad nursery experience. if i were you i would call a halt on all proceedings, put him back into nappies/pull ups for a month or so and then start afresh.

it's really common for them not to poo in the potty, and poo in their pants. try not to stress, he WILL not be wearing nappies when he goes to school, you haven't fucked up at all.

fwiw dd was about 3 before she was properly potty trained, maybe even older. ds1 at nearly 2.6 just laughs at potties and merrily poos and wees away in his nappies or on the carpet if doing a bit of free willy. Lovely.

How did you train dd in the end? I have heard that girls are easier, which gives me hope for dd (11 months)!

no advice, but lots of sympathy.
my DD is 2.11, and the last child we know in nappies. We are potty training ATM, but she has stated that she is "too worried" to poo on the potty. She will not or cannot explore this further, despite being pretty advanced verbally and emotionally. It all leaks out at night, pebble by tiny pebble.
I think what I'm trying to say is that I don't think either you or the ropey nursery have fucked up, but sometimes these things defy logic - bit like having a fussy eater I would imagine.

SUD, first of all, he is NOT the only one, there are pleny of children who are not trained by 3, it's just that their parents don't broadcast it. Our story with ds1 sounds very, very like yours, with the result that I didn't even start with ds2 or ds3 till they were 3 and they were both trained within a month.

Ds1 had a thing about pooing and would basically go behind the couch and poo in his pants, he wouldn't go near the toilet or potty.
We found first of all that the best thing to do was just chill. Now I know this is far easier said than done but they can sense when you're agitated and it can make them either equally agitated or defiant. Ds1 was, I think almost 4 at this stage and if he pooed in his pants, dh and I took a deep breath and changed him without comment. Very shortly after that, he started going to the toilet on his own.

The other thing to look into is whether he could be constipated. This sometimes doesn't appear to be constipation: it can be that they have a fear of pooing so hold on to it for as long as they can, which in turn makes it painful, creating a vicious circle. We did have to use stool-softeners with ds1 for a while to make sure it definitely wasn't hurting and making it more difficult for him to hang on.

I would give the gold stars and the rewards as well. It is an incentive and you can stop when he has gotten the hang of it. Never mind that it is the "norm" for a child his age to use the toilet, it is not the norm for him and that is what you are trying to change.

You have not fucked up at all, some children just take longer to train, regardless of intelligence. Ds1 was able to read those ladybird books and could spell his name, ds2's name and count to fifty and I couldn't for the life of me work out why pooing in a potty was such a monumental challenge for him! But he did get there in the end.

Martha, your dd sounds like she might be the constipated sort!
We used a softener called Mil-par, don't know if you can get it in the UK, and basically took the pain out if it and took away his ability to hold on. This breaks the cycle of pain-holding on- more pain- more holding on.

I don't have anything constructive to say about the potty training, but it isn't your fault. Like another poster said, it's like having a fussy eater. My DS (3.11) eats enough for a fly and is extremely fussy - my DD eats fine and I have done everything the same for them. You can't blame yourself, children have these quirks inbuilt!

It really is a very common issue, try not to let it get you down.

DS1 wouldn't poo in the toilet until practically a year after he started weeing in the loo. He just couldn't 'get it' at all and would just sit on the loo, no idea how to push out his poo and then 5 minutes later he would be doing it in his pants.

It was really hard, especially when we were out. I recall one fateful day in the dreaded Soft Play when I went looking for him and could smell him long before I could see him. I think he was nearly 3.6 at the time! He would never tell me he had pooed, just carried on whatever he was doing!!

He got the hang of it eventually but even now (he's 7) he still holds in his poo and doesn't like going...gets stomach ache because he holds it in aswell.

I think the only advice is patience. Carry on as you are, really you sound like you are doing a great job. I used to get quite frustrated with ds1, had no computer at the time and I felt too embarrassed to mention it to anyone so I really didn't know how common a problem it was

I think it is reassuring to know others are going through the same.

DS2 more or less toilet trained himself, he has never had any problems.

All three of mine were over three when trained, i don't see what the big competition is about it.

blah blah my ds/dd was trained at 6months blah blah

What they fail to mention is the hundreds of 'accidents' that their fully trained child has!

Obv not all are the same but being over three really isn't a big issue, no matter what some people would like you to think!

do not put him back in nappies at all! you will undo all the good work you have done, and you will confuse him, it took my ds longer to get the hang of pooing that it did weeing, i think most children are like that, my advice would be to get rid of pulls up all together, take a clean pair of pants with you everywhere he goes, he will soon get used to it and wont like the feeling of pooing his pants so will very quickly start using the loo, you really need to get rid of the pulls up

if i were you i would wait for the next half term and then go hard core, no pulls at all, if he poos, dont make a fuss, clean him up and carry on as usual, but thoughout the day keep asking him if he needs a poo and remind him he has no nappy on and needs to go on the potty, give him big rewards when he does go on the potty

if he doesnt like the potty, get him straight onto the loo, take him the shops and by him his own little loo seat, make it exciting for him, tell him he will get a nice surprise if he does poos on the loo, be hardcore, good luck!

I agree with chipmonkey.

I had this problem with my first DS who is now 23 years old! He was over 4 years before we got him to poo. He would hide in corners to go and it was extremely upsetting for us all to get it sorted.

I got a book to read with him which had reward stickers here is a link to potty training books

We had him in pants with lots of spares. We stopped using the potty but went to the toilet instead.

The health visitor advised to sit him on the toilet after a meal. Try not to constantly asks if he needs to go. If he soils himself, say nothing and just change him.

Making sure that his stools are soft is important. If he has been constipated he may well have hurt himself in the past. He might even have a fissure which is causing him pain and making him withhold going, so he might need some lactulose in the short term

Do talk to your health visitor.

VT - if he poos in his pants/pull-up he won't comment at all. If I ask him if he's done a poo he will deny it vehemently (usually blaming his little sister for the smell) and will freak out when I try and change him.

This is why I think the nursery has messed him up, he got so used to the feeling of being dirty from being left in dirty nappies all day that he doesn't know what it feels like.

oh dear, poor thing, do you think taking him to the shops and letting him choose some 'big boy' pants and a new potty/loo seat might help?

Sorry I've not read the rest of the thread (lots to read!) but I'm just beginning to consider potty training for DS (2.5) and have today started reading the No Cry Potty Training Solution which we got off eBay. In it the woman says that it's fairly common for children not to want to do poos on the loo, and if they are anxious/unable to relax then the sphincter muscles just can't relax to allow it to happen (how well I remember this from going to festivals in my youth and couldn't use the stinky portaloos ). I've only just started to read the book today but would recommend it.

What a shame that you had a good start screwed up by the nursery - I really wouldn't blame yourself though. Hope it gets better...

I agree with vt

no fuss, but no pull ups either

this is short term faff but if you go cold turkey he is going to get it so much sooner

good luck!

Oh poor you and you DS. Must be really frustrating for you both. I don't really have any advice really as I am new to potty training myself! At first my DS 2.5, wouldn't poo on the potty either, he would insist on a nappy if he felt he needed a poo. But I stuck at it and refused - would tell him to use the potty, and then go totally over the top on the praise, jumping up and down and punching the air sort of thing....(well perhaps not that over the top) when he would use it!

Our Potty is in the upstairs loo and he will just run up now to use it. However, he isn't fully potty trained yet, not dry at night, but like others have said they all get there in the end.

I am having a similar problem with my DS who is a bit younger than yours and he's back in nappies now. My mum sent me this article by Tanya Byron which I thought was quite helpful. Don't know if there's any useful advice in there for you too

Do you think books (for him) might help at all?

I bought 'Liam goes to the toilet', Once upon a potty' and 'Everybody poos' when we were training.

Should probably add that I started with my DS at 2.11 and although poo is fine (had about 3-4 weeks of pooey pants though at the beginning), wee is a bit more only when he can be bothered to go. So they are not the answer to everything!