Struggling to potty train almost 4 year old

[SaltySpitoon]

Hi all. DS will be 4 in June and we are tearing our hair out trying to potty train him. We have tried several times over the past year and used several different methods (going cold turkey from nappies, bribing with chocolate/sweets/toys, taking to the toilet every half an hour etc) and nothing has worked. He either gets distressed and starts crying and says no, or he just shows no interest! When he's wearing trousers with no nappy he doesn't even seem to notice/care that he has wet himself. He doesn't tell us that he needs the toilet. He does show interest in sitting on the toilet, flushing it, washing his hands etc but he has never actually done anything on it.

He does have a speech delay for which he's under SALT, could this possibly affect things?

I don't know if he's simply being stubborn, or whether he's genuinely not ready. I don't want to push it if it's the latter, but equally he's supposed to be starting school in September and I'm starting to feel the pressure a little. He has an older sister who was really easy to potty train and was reliably trained day and night by DSs age, but I understand all kids are different and she didn't have a speech delay.
Did anyone else have this?

Thank you ☺️

I agree with this advice. DS was just turned 3 when we managed to train him and he went straight to using a seat on the toilet / standing for wees. I seem to remember we’d throw bits of cereal into the toilet for him to aim at. We never bothered with reward charts etc because I don’t personally believe in rewarding basic life skills, but we did try to make it fun for him.

Just to add, neither of mine used a potty, they prefered to use the toilet right from the beginning. Maybe that would help? ( one is dyslexic and dyspraxic and the other has ASD, maybe has something to do with it)

In the OP, which is what I was replying to (as I posted immediately after she posted that, not all the subsequent posts) he has 'some speach delay' & they have tried 'several times over the past year'.

even now she says

He's still in the process of being assessed etc but his speech is quite delayed, about the same level as a 2 year old. His understanding is more in line with his age but also a little behind IMO. No physical delays

his understanding is in line with his age, non verbal children are toilet trained unless they have other issues (such as global delay) which given his understanding is age appropriate & he isn't physically disabled doesn't seem to be likely.

it's not about 'feeling good' it's about pointing out people leaving if until 'the child is ready' is not the way to go about it. Stopping and starting to 'see if they're ready' just confuses them.

You are being nasty. Saying we are lazy etc when nothing in ANY of my posts has indicated that. Even in my first post, which is the one you claim to have replied to, I mention his speech delay and that we have tried for over a year. Again, what part of that indicates we are lazy and haven't tried?

You are backpedaling slightly now because people are pointing out you're being horrible (and clearly MNHQ agree as they have deleted your first comment where you called me lazy). Have you got any actual advice or are you just here to stick the boot in?

The one 'I claim' to have replied to??

anyone can read the posting times to see I replied immediately after your first post.

'Back peddling'. What? Where? I'm saying exactly what I said in my first post.

You haven't been trying 'for a year' you have 'tried' several times over the year. Not the same thing.

I don’t know if these might be a bit too babyish for him given he’s almost four, but with both of ours I found watching the YouTube potty training videos ( Cocomelon, Baby Shark etc) really helped my two want to do it. One preferred the potty, one wanted to be straight on a ladder to the loo. We followed the Oh Crap method, but added a chocolate button as a bribe. Good luck. I think you probably need to just push through now rather than stop and start, but I get it’s not nice with constant accidents for a while

Ignore the "in my day babies were potty trained as they exited the vagina" mob OP, they're unhelpful.

I have been exactly where you were and it's really, really hard. We started at 2y 3m and we tried absolutely every technique there was, and nothing worked. The distress it caused to DD was awful.

In answer to your question, yes, speech and language delay might be connected. You say your DS doesn't seem to know when he needs to use the loo and doesn't know when he has been - my child had / has the same problem, and it was caused by problems with interoception. This is a fantastic clip explaining it (don't panic that it says "new topic in autism," because although poor interoception is linked to autism, it's not exclusive to autism).

My DD is autistic and finally trained at 7. She still doesn't reliably know when she needs to go and so she goes at set times. Things that helped were (in no particular order)

• a referral to the bladder and bowel team - the nurse was amazing
• being really really calm about accidents
• getting her to put her own wet things in the washing machine so she knew the sequence of accident - change - washing clothes
• toilet not potty
• specialist OT for interoception
• set times for a big drink and a sit on the toilet - because of her poor interoception she also wasn't getting sensations of thirst so she wasn't drinking enough, which meant her bladder wasn't filling, so the bladder signals were even more muted

Things that didn't help in the slightest

• going 'cold turkey' - just made her really distressed
• social stories - waste of time
• judgemental tutting

FWIW my child is fully verbal and no physical disability. It's not about understanding, it's about not getting the body signals. If this is the same problem for you then you might also notice he doesn't put a coat on when it's cold or take a jumper off when it's hot.

So, that's a no then? You are just here to tut and stick the boot in? Off you go then.

Thank you, this is really helpful. It is so stressful, especially with other people tutting and being judgemental! It's also tough because DD was so easy to potty train and she was younger than DS is now.

DS only had a speech delay diagnosis at 4, but we suspected Autism and he was diagnosed age 5. We also had a really difficult time trying to train him. In his case it wasn't interroception issues, he was just really really scared of sitting on the potty or toilet. We eventually got there with standing up wees around 4y2m and poos just before he was 5. It was really hard. Anyone criticising you will be someone who hasn't been through this.

No I was just replying to your post accusing me of lying.

meanwhile you are just continue to be rude.

agree To call HV team! Lots of useful advice and resources to post out. Plus referrals if needed.

First step is helping him understand what wee and poo is. The use of cards was a good suggestion. Then like others said, no more nappies (perhaps at night initially), tonnes of cheap underwear, cheap pants so if he soils you can bin those and re wash the ones that aren’t as bad. Toilet at home, travel potty/race to nearest toilet when out. You tube videos/cartoons and books, app games, about potty training.

I am not being rude at all. Who out of us has had posts removed by MNHQ for breaking guidelines? Not me. I am simply defending myself against you accusing me of being lazy. You came onto my thread where I clearly state I am STRUGGLING and asking for advice, and all you say in your first comment is 'you should have trained him two years ago. Lazy parenting!'.

How is that at all helpful? It's not. It is just rude and nasty.

Sounds a lot like our 4 year old who is also starting school in September. After a few failed attempts we just ditched daytime nappies back at Easter last year. It’s been a long year with tonnes of accidents but she is mostly there now.

In terms of him not seeming to care - how we have (spent months) getting around this is making sure we discuss the difference between wet and dry, get her to feel the fabric and be included in clean up. Let her choose her clothes and g her up so she wants to keep them on etc.

With being distressed, we found not offering was really helpful and bringing loads of energy. Like, in 10 minutes it’s time for the toilet sets alarm. When the alarm goes off, really enthusiastic talking about how it’s time to drop the wee/poo to poo land (also read the poo land book). Get some books/toys he can only have on the toilet, blow bubbles or windmills as it will relax their bladder naturally.

DD is also under SALT as well as various other professions due to a genetic condition causing some delays. We kind of are at the stage where we need to have her as ready as we can for school so personally I would just take the nappies away for daytime. Is he in child care?

Not sure if regional but we couldn’t get referral to the continence team until DD was 4 and the first appointment was the biggest waste of time (checking very basic things and giving quite obvious advice in my opinion), after 6 weeks they check in again and then put you through to wait for stage 2 whatever that is, we haven’t got there yet. If you can get the referral done now I would push for it to hopefully be seen before school.

ETA - I personally wouldn’t bother with a potty at this stage as it will be a battle later down the line then getting him onto the toilet. If he was younger maybe but school will have toilets, that’s what pushed us to transition from the potty and it’s made it way more manageable out and about as we just have a small fold up seat to carry. We are also quite strict ‘we will go to the park once you have had your wee’ for example. Always wee before we go out. In addition, we would recommend those absorbent pants, they feel wet in them but it mostly catches the wee so it’s not such a huge clean up job on your floor/sofa etc.

Not true in all cases. We used reusables for our DD1 who’s really struggled with potty training, our DD2 has been in mostly disposables and has used the potty for pooing since she was 7m and at 16m regularly pees on the potty.

That's such a sweeping statement that ALL children were potty trained by 2 . It just not true and not helpful to the op . BTW I had my children in the 70s and used terry nappies . Horrible things to wash and dry .