Possible PDA and toilet training

[Katieboo40]

OK, so my daughter is 4 years and 4 months. We have had such a battle to get her out of nappies and to cut a long story short, we finally got her to wear pants around 4 months ago. The problem we now have is that she will only wee or poo in a nappy. She will go to the bathroom and sit on the loo (as she knows these are the rules) but has to have a nappy on her to actually go. We've tried everything to get her to feel confident with actually losing the nappies but nothings working. To make it harder.l, she possibly has PDA so any demands or pressure makes her retreat and she gets super anxious. We've tried private potty trainers etc and all say to take pressure off and she will eventually do it but nursery are being funny about it and even she is getting upset as so wants to do it like a big girl but just says she's too scared. Can anyone please help as its reall starting to get me down. It's horrible yo see her so upset and stuck. Thanks

Can’t offer much in the way of advice but would she go if you lined the potty with the nappy instead or her wearing it? Might be a gradual step and then remove it when she’s comfortable? Potty training is really hard in my experience, but she will get there 💜

We had this - I went to the extremes of cutting a hole in the nappy so it would fall through into the toilet but she was still "wearing it".

Eventually the only thing that worked was choosing her a toy she really wanted. She could play with it as soon as she'd used the toilet. Any accidents, it went back on the shelf again until the next successful use of the toilet.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. We tried this but she is just refusing. The potty trainer said to cut one side of the pull up, then the other and do it slowly like that, but she refuses to even let me do this

I take it the cutting the hole didn't work? I've thought about this but if it freaks her out she will then totally lose trust in me and I fear we will be back to square one.

The toy is a good idea. I've tried a lucky dip bag but she got bored of it and is the most stubborn kid ever. I might try to toy idea as I know there is a dolly she would like but again, if she feels too much pressure on her to get the doll she may back off

Low demand then. Make it no big deal at all. Get the potty out and say it's there when you need to do wee or poo. Take it in garden if you are out there. No pressure, no talk, no rewards. ERIC helpline. They are the experts.

In that case I’m unsure what to advise apart from don’t give up. Consistency is key and eventually it will all click xxx

We had this problem too, when DD was coming to school age. I'd been trying to potty train her for so long - we did the Gina Ford potty training plan (which worked in less then a week for my other DD when she was two!), star charts, The Princess And The Potty, Poo goes to Pooland, ERIC resources, a poo/wee fairy...nothing worked. Like your DD, she was perfectly continent during the day and not having "accidents" as such, but she always had to have a nappy on to do a poo or wee. I was terrified that she would still need nappies for school. I think she was picking up on my anxiety and frustration about it too, which probably didn't help.

Anyway, what did finally work was cutting a small hole in her nappy (I cut a hole in all the nappies she'd need for the day and hid the rest). I popped it on, she didn't notice and jumped on to the loo...but when she did a wee, it "tinkled" into the toilet bowl, which startled her a little. I feigned surprise, examined the nappy and said "Oh dear, there's been a mix-up at the nappy factory...never mind, it's only a little hole". The next time she needed to go, she wasn't impressed to find that all of the nappies in the bag had a small hole in, but as there were no others she used them, and she quickly got used to the "tinkle". I cut a slightly larger hole in the nappies for the next day, and the next, and so on, until there was just a wisp of material left which wouldn't stay on anyway, at which point she decided she didn't need nappies for wees any more and could just use the toilet. Phew!

We had always used a different brand of nappy for bedtime and thankfully she didn't demand an un-holey night-time nappy to use for daytime wees.

Poos continued to be a problem even after she started school. Luckily she always pooed right after her bath/ just before bed, so there were no accidents at school. She would poo into her night time nappy, I'd put a fresh one on, and then she'd go to bed. I did wonder how we were going to break this habit, since she wasn't yet dry at night so still needed a nappy at bed time. In the end, a friend with a younger child sent me a triumphant pic of her DS's first poo in a potty. I showed the photo to my DD, and she did a poo into a potty (lined with a nappy) the following evening. From there, it was a fairly painless journey through pooing into an unlined potty, to pooing into the loo (but I could only flush once she'd left the room). She's eight now, with no toilet issues.

Good luck!

DD possibly has PDA but not diagnosed. we had a potty in the bathroom and plonked her on it after her bath. Used to ask her what noise a wee made and make a sss-ing sound. She took to weeing quite easily as we'd made it a game. Poos were a bit more difficult, but she started to name them, and we had elephant poo, and after a two-tone one, tiger poo!

Not all straightforward as I remember her announcing very firmly that 'knickers closed today'. No negociation whatsoever.

OP, you might find it helpful to post on the PDA society website.

Good luck

Oh my goodness. I could cry tears of joy. Thank you all so so much for helping and advising. It's so nice to know I'm not alone. ❤️

You are a star! I will try this and pray it works. Thank you so much x

Ooh will take a look now. Thanks

I've tried to contact Eric and they are closed until Monday but I will definitely try them next week. Thank You xxxx

Others will tell you to do low-demand with your DD but you have to reduce the demands (expectations) on yourselves too.

We had the most absolutely amazing nurse from the Bladder & Bowel Team - ask for a referral from your GP. She understands about autism in girls and the first thing we did was completely remove the demand of toilet training altogether so DD went back to pull ups and we just stopped trying for a few months. She was at school by then and the school weren't thrilled but they were willing to work with the bladder nurse. The nurse also told us to cut out anything blackcurrant flavoured and to remove chocolate from her diet as both can irritate a sensitive bladder, just in case it was a physical thing. DD's little face as she accepted that she wasn't going to be able to have chocolate at Christmas was what persuaded me she wasn't just being "difficult" - in her case she genuinely didn't know when she needed to go. It sounds like your DD might have a different issue but if your bladder and bowel team is as good as ours then I would recommend starting there. They should hopefully also be able to tell nursery to wind their necks in if it's upsetting your child.

Thank you! Nursery have made it worse as they keep saying she's a big girl and she can do it. They are trying to help but I have explained this just puts pressure on her and she gets more upset. I will speak to GP again 😊

Oh I'm reading this thread today and absolutely dying to hear how you've been getting on. 3.5 year old here who I had to put back in nappies after she made the connection between eating and drinking and toileting and basically started limiting food and water until I put her back in nappies. She's used the potty sporadically since but we have to remind her as I think she has problems with interoception too. Any progress or new advice would be immensely appreciated!

Hi! Sorry you're going through the same. My daughter actually stopped eating and drinking too which is why we had to take all pressure off her and put her back in nappies. So.... I can actually tell you we are getting somwhere! And you know what we did? Absolutely nothing 😂 basically said she can do it when she's ready but for now she can have her nappies. She first of all would wee on the toilet but wearing her nappy. We gave her full control by teaching her to do it herself so at nursery, when she needed the loo, she would go to her bag, get her own pull up, go the the loo and put it on. This made a huge difference as she didnt need to worry of her teacher would do it or not. We also put a tray next to the loo with her nappies in at home so she knew they were there for her. This went on for a long time and suddently out of the blue a month or so ago she said "I want to try my potty to wee in" and she did it. Bit she asked for no praise so we were just chilled with it and acted as if it's something she has always done 😂 then weirdly yesterday she said I want to try the toilet now mummy and has done 4 wees on the toilet! She will still only poo in her nappy but she is starting to hate me change her so I'm hoping that will come. Honestly, I feel your pain and worry but my daughter is 4 and a half and only just getting it and feeling confident to do it. My advice would be to go back to basics. Give her pull ups and don't talk about it so much. When she brings it up jus say "I know you can do it and you'll do it when you're ready" give her the power back xxx

If you think she knows when she needs a wee but is just holding it, try not to remind her so much too. I was constantly asking my daughter and it didn't help. Will she wear her pull up and sit on the loo to wee? If so that's the first place to start. We said "ok you're in control and we know you love your nappies, and that's Ok but, wee wees belong in the bathroom so let's try sitting on the loo to do them"

Any chance there is a positive update on this regarding the poos @Katieboo40 ? My son has just turned 4 and is fine for wees but will only poo in a pull-up (standing up in bathroom!). Anytime we try to push him forward we get so much resistance. It’s so hard. This thread has definitely made me feel less alone.