4yo will not use toilet or potty

[Imgettingcheesefries]

Really struggling with this, I don't know what to do. I'm not really sure where to begin it's quite a long story.

Bought dd a Peppa Pig potty when she was 2 and a half, she was happy to sit on it fully clothed but cried and screamed when we talked about what it's for and how to use it etc. I kept putting it off and waiting for the day she would want to use it, since all the things I had read about potty training said when your child is ready to potty train they will want to, but the day never came.

Then when she was 3 and a half I decided the day wasn't arriving so I would just go for it and see what happened. She cried and screamed all day for 3 days, had maybe one or two wees in the potty, when I made her stay there despite the crying, and waiting for her bedtime nappy to poo. The health Visitor said to keep going, that's the only advice she gave. I gave up, the day long tantrums were just too much, I know this was probably a mistake but she was so miserable and everyone else in the house was too.

So now she's recently turned 4, she's starting school in September and she has her taster days in 2 weeks so I'm trying again. We're bypassing the potty this time and bought a toilet seat thing so she wasn't scared of falling in. We started on Saturday morning so we're on day 5 now. Everyday has been the same, she holds everything in and when I put her on the toilet she repeatedly says she doesn't need to go and she wants to get off and nothing ever comes. Last night we got the closest to anything happening, just before bedtime (just before bedtime nappy and pjs on) she said she needed a wee, I said okay let's go, we went upstairs, got on the toilet, she said she didn't need it she wanted to get off. She cried and screamed for 10 minutes on the toilet until she came back downstairs. Same again 10 minutes later when I could see she needed it. Eventually it got to bedtime so she had her nappy on and used it straight away and was calm and happy again.

So she's holding everything in for about 11 hours everyday and then using her nappy as soon as she can. She's miserable, I'm miserable. She won't answer me if I ask why she doesn't want to do it, if pushed she'll say she's scared but won't tell me what of.

Wow that was a long story, has anyone else had a similar experience?

We've tried stickers, charts, chocolate buttons, praise, leaving her to do it in private so not 'watching' she would rather have none of those things and just wear a nappy so they haven't helped

Ok, my daughter did the same thing.
We 'gave the nappies away to the nappy fairy' when she was almost 3. She then did the whole holding everything in but we couldn't go back to nappies as she refused wear them again (including at night!! So she was sometimes doing 20+ hours) but also wouldn't use a potty or toilet.

So this is what we did, and it did take some time but we've finally got there after 8 months.
We put her in knickers all day and when we physically could see she needed to go we put her in a pull up, she went, we cleaned her up and back in knickers.
When she mastered the telling us she needed to go and asking for a pull up, we progressed to crouching down whilst going in a pull up, then sitting on the potty with a pull up on.
I then cut holes in the pull up (swim nappies are best for this as the stuffing doesn't fall out and get their legs wet when they stand up) and the wee went in the potty - she was so proud of herself and this spurred her on

She would then put the pull up on, sit on the potty and I would undo the sides and she would wee/poo on top of it in the potty (I had to convince her to do this by buying a few sizes too small and saying she was such a big girl now they didn't fit anymore)
We then progressed to laying an open pull up in the potty, and then just a few sheets of toilet roll

And then one day she literally just got it and wee'd on the potty/ toilet with no problems.

Poo took a little longer, but as she wasn't having accidents in her knickers, recognised when she needed to go and asked for a pull up (and nursery were so accommodating with popping her in a pull up when she asked) it didn't really affect day to day life.

I am so aware this process sounds utterly ridiculous!
but it was the only way that worked for my daughter, it was a very emotional thing for her and the withholding was very distressing for her and resulted in weeks of prescribed laxatives and concerns about UTIs (getting a urine sample from a kid that won't wee is a whoooole different story )
I really hope some of this helps, and I really sympathise with the stress of it.

Hi, thanks for the advice, I could maybe put a pull up on her when she needs to go. She definitely won't tell me when she needs to but could maybe try just a few times a day with putting one on so she can if she wants to.

She's so stubborn I can't even have a chat with her about it, she'll just repeat the same thing over and over until I get frustrated and give up. For example, today-
Let's go and have a try before lunch
I won't do it I'll just cry
Doesn't matter we can still try, why do you cry on the toilet though?
I'll just cry
But why? I want to make it easy for you so if you tell me what's wrong I can make it better
*I'll just cry
*
She'll repeat that answer for the next 10 minutes so I stop talking about it. Hoping the Oh Crap book from amazon arrives tomorrow so we can give that a go 😊

How's it going with the book? :)

I haven't finished it yet, I read half them skipped to the chapters I thought would be more relevant to me right now. Not much help to be honest, the closest situation to mine I could find is the "child from hell" 😂 which is where the child will look you in the eye and go on the floor on purpose, the others were if they're trying but not getting to the bathroom in time or scared of the toilet. So the advice for the child from hell is to go to a family therapist. I'm still reading and will hopefully finish it today and it sounds like it will be helpful for my 2 yo anyway.

It's all been the same here, she's holding it all in all day and instantly happy and like a different child when she has her nappy on at bedtime. I've decided to ditch nappies completely and see what happens, tonight will be the first night. We've talked about it, she isn't happy but I don't think there's anything else I can do

Good plan, how did it go with the no nappy situation?

It went okay, better than expected really.

She used the potty just before bed, she didn't want to but it was clear she needed to so I wouldn't let her get up. Woke her up for the toilet as I was going to bed about 11pm-ish and she wouldn't use it, no surprise there. Bed was dry in the morning which was great but she still wouldn't use the potty or toilet this morning saying she didn't need to. She's at nursery now so hopefully she will do something there.

I'm really hoping that once she realises there's no more nappies ever again she might stop resisting so much. She hasn't really made much progress since we started 10 days ago though so it's definitely going to take a while.

Are there any activities she's like to do, where she needs to be dry / not wearing bulky pull-ups - dance, swimming etc.? You could maybe use that as a goal to work towards for September.

That definitely went well. You are clearly doing the right thing. She obviously has good control it's just nappies are what she is used to. As soon as she realises they are not around anymore I'm sure things will even out.

That's a good idea, we were thinking about swimming lessons for her soon, she would love it so that's something she could work towards.

I think she's slowly realising that I'm not quitting and we're sticking with it this time but it's so hard to make her do it when she's so upset.

My 3.5 yo is nowhere near trained and has no interest in the potty, she's only ever worn disposables but I've got a chance to buy some traditional cloth nappies from a friend so I'm going to collect them tomorrow. I'm not sure if it with make any difference or how easy it will be to put a real nappy on a 3.5 yo but I'll find out tomorrow ;-)

Fingers crossed that works for you @Shoemum, it's so hard when they have no interest in the potty. The health visitor came to see us the other day to talk about what's happening and she's referred us to the child continence team for some help, I wasn't even aware there was any help for potty training so I'm really glad I called her.

We've had a bit of a breakthrough the last few days, she's had 2 days with no accidents, I've noticed more the signs of her needing to go and she will usually use the potty when I ask her to. The unicorn tattoos turned out to be a massive hit, she loves them but is now covered in about 20!

Hi thanks for replying about out toiler training woes, my 3.5 yo absolutely refuses the potty so she still in full time nappies. Shes always had disposables buy I'm buying a load of terry nappies tomorrow to use on my 14 mth old so I've decided to put my eldest in them too.

I havent a clue how to put a terry on a stroppy 3.5yo but she's having one tomorrow ;-) Do you get the tantrums when it's time for the nappy - just lately mine is terrible :-(

Does your 3.5 yo not want a nappy or the potty? My 4 yo would have been happy to use nappies forever it didn't bother her at all. Maybe if he/she doesn't want nappies that could maybe be something to build on to go towards pants? It's been about 3 weeks I think since we started potty training again and it's got so much easier now she's realised that's just how it is now and we're not giving up

My 3.5 yo doesn't want anything to do with the potty but doesn't like nappy changes either :-(