Doing well at home but struggling in childcare

[graysor]

We are on about week 3 of potty training dd2.5. Some inevitable ups and downs but generally at home and with me and dh she’s doing well.

But we still have to watch her very closely and tell her to sit on the potty when it looks like she needs to go. And she is still very resistant to this, often kicking up a big fuss about not wanting to and not needing a wee etc. We are careful not to over nag her as that definitely makes it worse!

The problem is when she’s at the childminder she is obviously not watched so closely. Childminder has other kids to supervise etc. So dd is having lots of accidents. Yesterday I picked her up with 2 sets of wet and 2 sets of dirty clothes

Dd gets upset when she has an accident, so it’s not like she’s just not bothered. But she obviously isn’t yet at the stage where she will ask to go.

Any ideas on where to go from here? Is there anything I can do to help dd to ask to go?

I know that a lot of people think being potty trained at 2 is an absolute must but with both of mine, I waited until they could communicate well enough to tell me they needed to go or were about to.

Both DD's had it down within one week just a few weeks shy of their 3rd birthday.

I think that some do better when there's no stress and they can communicate well.

A large part of potty training Ian recognising they need to go and asking to go, professing to talking themself off to the potty/toilet. Otherwise you (the adult) are basically just catching wees in a potty.

I’ve never really ask if they need to go. I think that kind of defeats the point! Of course I will on occasion and before we go out etc but routinely asking them defeats the point.

(I’m a childminder btw)

Sorry for typos!

There’s a difference in approach here - you’re pre-empting her needing the loo whereas the childminder is replying on her to realise herself. I do think you need a consistent approach between both places.

I personally think after the first couple of weeks you need to let the child learn the cues themselves (so don’t tell them they need a wee) despite the fact that this can result in a week or two of more accidents. Otherwise you simply have a child who can go if/when somebody takes them to the loo but they haven’t learned the initiative to get themselves there on time. (I appreciate there’s a lot of different approaches and views on potty training - that’s just mine. I’m currently in week 2 of potty training dd2 and I’m leaving it up to her with regards to telling me she needs to go this week - I see any accidents at this stage as part of the learning process)

Anyway regardless of how you decide to progress I’d say you and the childminder need to be doing the same thing - if she’s going to mind children of potty training age then she needs to be able to help with this rather than just change her into clean clothes!

I agree that unless they are able to recognise they need to go themselves and tell you, there isn’t really any point in taking them out of nappies.

What you are doing is ‘elimination communication’ which some people do with very small babies, basically watching for the signs they need to go and then taking them.

Is there anything I can do to help dd to ask to go?
If she doesn’t recognise she needs to go before she starts to wee, then there is nothing you can do until she is physically ready to do this.

if she’s going to mind children of potty training age then she needs to be able to help with this rather than just change her into clean clothes!

I don’t think the cm is doing that because it’s the easy option, far from it when it takes you away from looking after other children.

if she’s going to mind children of potty training age then she needs to be able to help with this rather than just change her into clean clothes!

I’m sure she is helping, the CM won’t want to keep changing soiled and wet clothes-I’m sure she’s doing everything she can to avoid this! But if the DD isn’t able to tell the CM she needs to go and is resistant to sitting on the potty when reminded the CM is probably unable to avoid some accidents. Yes, she can try and watch her closely but it’s not easy when you’ve got other DC to watch.

if she’s going to mind children of potty training age then she needs to be able to help with this rather than just change her into clean clothes!

I think I can say with reasonable certainty that the child isn't having repeated accidents simply because the childminder is following the path of least resistance, or because the childminder isn't watching her closely. It would be far less time consuming for the childminder to simply shoehorn the child into the potty at 20 minute intervals than to have to extract the child four times a day from soiled clothes, clean her, redress her and potentially also clean the mess in her home and car - potty accidents invariably cause mess on carpets, furnishing, pushchairs, car seats and car upholstery etc, and all whilst keeping the other children occupied and away from the mess.

Children in childcare commonly have more accidents than at home, for all sorts of reasons. It sounds in this case as if the child just isn't truly ready. She isn't able to recognise the signs of a full bladder and attempt to use a potty.

Hmmm, some interesting thoughts here.

In my opinion dd is definitely ready. And I’m certainly not inclined to put her back in nappies now. She is very clear that she’s a big girl now and wears big girl pants not a nappy. Her communication and understanding is definitely more than good enough.

I also think she is doing better than us just catching wees in the potty. Sometimes at home she does say she needs to go, but this is the exception rather than the rule.

Maybe I need to prompt her less at home and let her have more accidents to help with the learning process?

I try not to nag her about it. And try and wait till she’s showing obvious signs like jigging around or grabbing herself. If i see her doing this do I just ignore it and let her work it out for herself?

Yes to more accidents. If you have hard floors, let her go about with nothing on her bottom half too. That helps as they see and feel it as it happens.

If you see her jigging, it's fine to say "Do you need to go to the loo?" or whatever phrase you use.

Personally, I waited until mine were able to recognise they needed to go, tell me they needed to go and hold it in time to get to the toilet. Oh and them wanting to do it too as if they are resisting sitting on the potty then it’s obviously going to make the whole thing harder.
I was happy to wait until they were properly ready though and they didn’t have any accidents, no reminding them to go, didn’t need to keep taking them to the toilet, watching for signs, etc. They could also get on/off the toilet themselves/take their clothes off which obviously helps.

Some people prefer to go down the route of doing it earlier and having lots of accidents and lots of reminding them to go, etc. Some DC do ‘get it’ this way (if they are close to being ready) and others don’t because they are just not physically ready (no matter how good their communication is if their body isn’t ready to tell them they need to go, it isn’t ready).
People then either have months of accidents until they are ready or put them back in nappies for a bit.

Honestly though, when they are all 5/6 and just taking themselves the toilet, it doesn’t matter who was out of nappies before two and who was over 3.

I also think she is doing better than us just catching wees in the potty. Sometimes at home she does say she needs to go, but this is the exception rather than the rule.

But if it’s the exception rather than the rule then you are just catching wees! Nothing wrong with this if that’s what you are happy to do, some people do this from a couple of months old.

I would also say 3 weeks of regular accidents would indicate she really isn’t ready. She might be feeling frustrated that she wants to do it and be a ‘big girl’ etc but if her body isn’t telling her she needs to go then there isn’t anything she can do about it and it might be really upsettingfor her to keep wetting and soiling herself, like she’s feeling she’s ‘failed’.

Is she going long gaps in between wees?
Can she wee on demand every time you sit her on the potty (even if it’s only a small amount)?
These usually come before recognising she needs to go, so if she’s doing that then she might be nearly there.

Ajas - when she’s jigging I ask her if she needs a wee. Sometimes she is adamant it’s a no. ( and usually she’s right as it rarely results in an accident soon after). Sometimes she will willingly sit on the potty and do a wee.

We have done quite a bit of bare bum at home. But she definitely knows when she’s doing a wee or a poo with her clothes on as she will tell me as she’s doing it.

Little - yes she can go for long gaps between wees, at least a couple of hours. And she is pretty reliable at doing a ‘just in case’ wee on demand before we go out somewhere/ come home.

I guess the crux of the issue is that I’m reasonably happy to ‘just catch the wees’ for the moment. But the childminder isn’t / can’t reasonably be expected to. So dd is stuck between 2 different approaches.

Usually when they can wee on demand every (or at least nearly every) time, even if just a small amount it shows they are physically in control so unless she is able to do this more or less every time you could be quite a way off.

Recognising as they are doing a wee usually comes before recognising before they need to go.
But she definitely knows when she’s doing a wee or a poo with her clothes on as she will tell me as she’s doing it
She’s definitely on the right track and the telling you before she’s doing it will come after this stage - the only problem is not knowing how soon after. It could be weeks or could be months and months.

If she isn’t telling you she needs to go, it’s either:

• she doesn’t know as just physically isn’t ready and doesn’t recognise the signs yet
• she does know but can’t communicate it (which doesn’t sound the case as you said her communication is good)
• she does know but doesn’t want to tell you (can be either not emotionally ready or can be they don’t like the potty or don’t want to stop playing to go). This often happens after they are trained through, like a regression.

In terms of the childminder, can you set a time limit (say 2 weeks) and if she’s still having frequent accidents maybe consider pull ups. I wouldn’t worry about different approaches, kids are really good at distinguishing that different things happen in different places and there are different rules,etc.
I would be mindful of it affecting your DDs confidence/self esteem though.

Thanks little.

I would say she is definitely able to wee on demand nearly every time, maybe 9 times out of 10.

I don’t know if she isn’t telling me before she has to go because she just isn’t sufficiently aware yet. Or if it’s because she doesn’t want to. Could be either, but it’s definitely not because she can’t communicate it.

I think the idea of a time limit with the childminder is a good one. I’ll have a rethink in 1-2 weeks time. Hopefully it will gradually improve over that time. But if not I might have to accept it’s back to nappies for a while.

From what you’ve described I think you’re right and she just isn’t aware yet. Hopefully she will get it soon.

If she can wee on demand, tell you as she is going and big gaps in between it sounds like she is almost ready.

It’s a bit like them learning to stand then walk. Some walk soon after they can stand and others take a long while in between the two stages.

She’ll be out of nappies and telling you she needs to go the toilet at some point and in the long term it really doesn’t matter if it’s next week or in 6 Months time so try not to worry about it, although I appreciate it’s difficult with the childminder.

I would keep acknowledging for telling you she has done a wee ‘thank you for telling me’ but probably keep it very low key. If she genuinely isn’t aware she needs to go then doing big over the top praising when she does go in the potty may make her feel a bit rubbish about herself when she doesn’t go (you can’t really praise/reward for something she can’t help!).

If it was me and from what you’ve said, I probably wouldn’t mention it at all now, no ‘oooh what a big girl wearing knickers’ ‘are you going to do a wee on your potty’ ‘look mummy needs a wee’ etc. She knows where the potty is if she needs to go and knows how to tell you so you don’t need you to keep on at her to go! You know her best though and what will work for her so go with what you think.

Good luck, I’m sure she’ll be doing it before you know it!

Thanks. I do get the feeling that she is very close to being ready. And I felt like we had been doing so well, so am obviously reluctant to backtrack at this point.

Slightly better day at the cm today. All wees in the potty. But 2 poos in her pants. She did in one occasion ask to go for a poo. But then didn’t do one

I do always say thank you for telling me when she does ask for the potty, or tells me that she’s going. But I’ll definitely turn down the praise a bit.i don’t want her getting upset if she really can’t tell yet.

Tomorrow is another day.