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Potty training

Is your child ready for potty training at nursery? Here's the place for all your toilet training questions.

Wrong to punish for soiled pants?

17 replies

Pufnstuf · 18/03/2015 11:33

I've been potty training DS, nearly 4, for well over a year. He wees no problem by himself, takes himself off to the loo and never wets himself, and is even dry at night.
However with poo, it's another story entirely. He doesn't care that he's soiled himself, which I know is fairly common in boys anyway, and will lie each time I suspect he's done a poo.

These are the things I've done or still do to try to change his behaviour:

Reward chart with a star each time he tells me he needs the loo (which he loves and gets very excited about the few times he's managed it)
Special toy I have kept aside for him that he knows he can have when he stops soiling his pants
Stopped using nappies completely
Asked him if he understands when a poo is coming and he always says yes and knows that he should be going to the loo
Always tell him I will help him when he goes
Always praise him highly when he does manage it
Bought him a special seat for the loo
Bought him special pants
Explained to him that poo is dirty and why he needs to keep clean
Explained to him that even when he is busy playing, eating or doing something he enjoys, he needs to stop, go to the loo and then go back to what he was doing

To be honest we've had so many poo conversations I don't think there is anything we haven't covered and he does a very good job at convincing me he understands.

However I am so exhausted by his constant soiling, sometimes three pairs of pants or more, one after the other, even after he reassures me he will tell me "next time". I catch him going behind the sofa, and if I'm lucky I'll take him to the loo on time but often it's too late.

So, it's the disciplining part I am unsure of. I'm not proud of it, but when I'm at the end of my tether, tired, and have other things going on and can't face another pooey pair of pants, I have shouted at him over it, but always apologised after. I do not want this to have any damaging effect of course, but sometimes I think maybe he needs me to step things up in order for it to have an impact. In fact I was so annoyed the other day I completely removed his reward chart in front of him as he hasn't had a star for so long, which really upset him, so I thought maybe it would give him the jolt he needs...but no, nothing, and of course he's forgotten about it by now.

So my question - is it wrong to punish in this case? Will applying standard punishments, e.g. Restricting TV, play time with friends, no scooter etc. help or hinder, or make it even worse? Should this sort of thing, as any other developmental phase, go unpunished?

Sorry it's so long, I can't believe I've had so much to say about it!!

OP posts:
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neolara · 18/03/2015 11:51

My dd was a nightmare potty training and I had similar experiences to you. It used to enrage me more than anything else about raising my kids. I ended up talking to a very experienced nursery teacher about this and after following her suggestions, things improved literally overnight. I'd say we cracked it totally within a few days after at least a year of hell. It also worked on dc3 when she went a period of pooing in her pants.

OK, this was the plan......

Firstly, I was to tell my dd that big girls do poos in the loo. Mummy does. Granny does. Teacher does. That's just what happens. Then don't go on about it any more.

Secondly, if she did a poo in her pants, I was totally to ignore it. I might make some comment like "Oh, it's a bit smelly in here" but then walk away. After a while, pooey pants start to hurt and dd would come to tell me what had happened. No chasing her round the house trying to get her to get changed (which was a lovely game)

Thirdly, if she had done a poo in her pants, I would take her to the bathroom, hand her the wipes, tell her she had to clean herself up all in an absolutely-I'm-not-at-all-bothered-about-this kind of way. I might stay in the bathroom, doing a bit of cleaning, but I wouldn't look at her/ comment/ give praise, hurry her up /help her etc. At the end, once she'd had a really good go, I'd give a quick wipe. Dc3, who was a bit more fiesty than DC1, would stand in the bathroom screaming at me hysterically at this point, so I'd just walk away and leave her too it. If she was naked and covered in poo, I wouldn't let her leave the bathroom until she'd cleaned herself up. Initially, the screaming could go on for 20 mins or so but after a day or so she just stopped.

Fourth, once she was all cleaned up, I'd give absolutely no praise but tell her to go find some clean clothes and put them on.

Repeat the next time.

Literally, it took 48 hours and things were completely sorted. The trick is to totally make it your child's problem and nothing to do with you. Sort of, "that's fine darling, you do a poo in your pants if you want, but then you have to deal with it" with a tinkly laugh. You have to be utterly and totally zen about it. If they get even the slightest inking that what they are doing is getting to you in any way, you are doomed! A cross look, a tense tone of voice, a raised eye-brow - they are all ammunition for your dc.

If your dc has constipation issues with leakage then obviously this method won't work. But if he is just being bloody minded, the above approach is definitely worth a try.

Good luck!

Jackie0 · 18/03/2015 11:54

That's brilliant neolara. I'm going copy and save that.

munchkinmaster · 18/03/2015 11:57

You are brave neolara!

I really avoided punishment as I think my wee one is actually quite scared of pooing on the loo.

I worry she will hold in and get constipated/impacted.

But

I do turn the tv off etc if a deliberate poo is done. So running off with nighttime nappy and delib doing a poo gets a row. Accidents don't.

She is getting better but that's maybe more as I am catching her and getting her to succeed on potty and get used to it.

Pufnstuf · 18/03/2015 12:03

Bloody hell, Neolara, I can't believe I thought I'd thought of everything, but not ignoring/acting nonchalant! That sounds brilliant. I am trying this right now, right away. No more yelling or dealing with it.
I will report back in a few days!

OP posts:
BoysWillGrow · 18/03/2015 12:05

thanks neolara i'm going to try this too, I have the same problem although I never tell DS off or show its affecting me. We talk and he knows it's wrong, but then it's me that always cleans him up, so the making it his problem to clean up is good advice.
lets hope it works.

MildDrPepperAddiction · 18/03/2015 12:07

'Fairly common in boys' Confused

Children are all individuals. I don't think you can say one gender is better at toilet training than the other.

Good luck.

justabigdisco · 18/03/2015 12:10

We had a similar issue - wees no problem but poos a different story (DD was just under 3 when we tried). She has responded well to a sticker at bedtime for clean pants all day - but when she slips up, we just change them and say 'no star today but we'll try again tomorrow'. I think we have cracked it now!

fukkigucci · 18/03/2015 12:15

I had a similar issue with dd and wee's. She would let a little bit out, wetting her knickers, tights, and trousers. It was so frustrating.
My dad (my kid guru!) gave the same advice as pp. Just to ignore. So I did. And she stopped within days. Amazing.

Pufnstuf · 18/03/2015 12:16

Well, I'm just going by what I hear from other people's experiences, Dr Pepper - no scientific research there Grin

OP posts:
Arendelle · 18/03/2015 12:17

Great advice! thanks

0x530x610x750x630x79 · 18/03/2015 12:26

i love that advice, can i add bribery when he does do it in the potty, or maybe at 4 it should just be in the big peoples loo.

Boomf · 18/03/2015 12:42

Good god just relax woman! My youngest son is 8 and still has accidents - and he's completely neuro typical with no SN. It's no big deal - it happens with young children. I doubt very much he'll be doing it at 15...

I just help my DS clean up, remove the pants and I'm kind and matter of fact. He sometimes gets all flustered and embarrassed and says sorry .. I always say that there is nothing to be sorry about, that it's part of my job of being a mum and that maybe next time he will take a bit more care and get to the toilet in time but that it's not big deal.

This approach means that he's relaxed and able to tell me. It's really not an issue at all and they grow out of it until you just get occasional accidents

Give yourself - and him - a break

Boomf · 18/03/2015 12:43

Oh and to answer your question ... Never punish . It's just one of those things.

Pufnstuf · 18/03/2015 12:54

Boomf, I am relaxed in general Smile but we all have our moments of losing it over some such thing. DS1 potty trained within a week with no hiccups, so this is quite the contrast. And yes...it's not the point they won't still be doing it at 15, it's happening now and a daily bucket of stewing pants is taking its toll!
Anyway, no more punishments Smile

OP posts:
Boomf · 18/03/2015 21:52

He's little - still 3, yes? It's really normal. Buy loads and loads of cheap pants and just bin the badly soiled ones, making it less work for you

Misty9 · 23/03/2015 21:42

I'm really interested how its going op?

We're having similar problems and I can't decide whether it's impaction etc or bloody mindedness as someone else said!

Might try ignoring tomo, but the smell is awful!

pilsbury1 · 26/05/2015 20:21

I would also dearly love to know if this has helped at all - my 4 year old still has accidents most days (usually wee but sometimes poo), despite being potty trained since just before she was 2 (with hindsight this was a bad time as too young and also just before second child was born). Like the OP we have tried literally everything and are now going down the punishment route (eg no tv or bedtime story that day, taking toys away). In fact our doctor has referred us to the paediatric bowel and bladder clinic, first appointment next week. I am so worried about this still going on when she starts school in sep - it had literally taken over my life for the last two years (otherwise she is such a well behaved and gentle and fun little girl). So I'd love to hear if the nonchalant approach works....

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