Desperate: what do I do? 3.5 DC about to go to nursery and no interest/ability to poo in the loo

[theladybirdheard]

I am at my wits' end. Just come back from childminder where DC had done poo all over sofa; then did it in the bath, not at all bothered. Suffered from constipation, took ages for docs to take any interest, on movicol now for about 3 months - and I don't know why. Have tried not to get cross, make a big thing and I don't think DC is either bothered or knows when doing it. Never does a poo in the loo unless by accident. I am desperate. Finally got referral to clinic - HV on 3 week holiday. Starts nursery at a school in September and I am in despair.

Tell school so they can put together a plan. These people have advice.

www.eric.org.uk

School have to be inclusive and cannot discriminate against your child, nether can they leave your DC in soiled clothes. You can get pads that go inside pants I think.

I do not have direct experience of your situation myself but my DC was given a Statement of SEN and I read a lot around the subject and parent's and child's rights.

Sorry I have just read this is nursery but I still think they should have an inclusion policy. They should be used to this kind of thing. A fair proportion still have these kind of issues in reception and later.

It sounds like he's either not developmentally ready or medical issues are stopping him from being ready. Please don't worry about it, the nursery will be used to it and he will do it in his own time. You sound very worried and pressured about being ready before nursery but it really doesn't matter if he isn't.

It's a nursery within a school if you see what I mean - get the 15 hours free in the school from September. I do feel very worried and pressured about this; I feel so powerless. Partly cos DC1 trained v quickly so I don't know what has happened this time. DC went to a very nic e small nursery before where they were patient. But I don't have a diagnosis. The constipation went on for ages because I couldn't get a doc to take it seriously - it was all 'it'll resolve itself on potty training' and I should have been more forceful I guess. I thought SENs were for behavioural/ problems with learning - wd they do a SEN for this?
I just don't want DC to be known as 'the child who poos themself' and not be seen for the wonderful child they are as well

Schools are not allowed to discriminate against disabilities, they have to take reasonable steps to be inclusive. The website I linked to has more information. Schools have to liaise with the NHS to cater for medical needs. Local education authorities often have advice/policies to deal with continence issues ( you should be able to look this up on their website). Your child has got a right to receive this free education.

The SN boards on here also would be a good place to post for advice regarding continence issues and schooling.

Hi there. Please don't be stressed at all! I was where you are one year ago and my ds (4 nearly 5) still will not poo on the loo. He will go to the toilet and put on a pull-up. At nursery ( in a school) he Never once soiled himself and managed to hold on until home time. He is now at school all day and so far there have been no issues and he waits until he is home. I have been through all of the emotions and we've tried everything. His consultant said that some children just aren't ready when we decide they should be and take a bit longer to be trained. He said he had children on his caseload that are 9 and 10 with this problem. He also said that children actually toilet train themselves as it is a combination of physical readiness and mental awareness so please don't think it's anything you're doing. It isn't. Your dc, like mine will do it in their own time and I , like you, hope it's soon!

I read a good thread about children with constipation/potty training issues. My dd2 is 3.5 and has a almost phobia of pooing on the toilet. She'll go in a potty with a pull up on with the whole back cut out - it took a lot of effort to get there from her demanding a pull up to poo in.

Constipation can prevent them knowing when they are going to poo, hence the accidents. I can't remember all the advice as my dd's issue isn't constipation. You could try advance search.

We've had some success with Poo goes to Pooland. It depends if your dc can control their poo, if they don't know they are doing it then all the books and sticker charts won't help.

Sunshine thank you so much for posting! It's such a relief to hear someone else in the same situation - we have felt so alone. CM very well-meaning but "I've never had a child like this before"; all the other mums IRL all done and dusted - my sister likewise had all hers done well before the age of 3 - I just don't know. DC will soil and doesn't seem to be able to/won't stop - it almost makes me long for the days when he wouldn't go more than 1-2 a week!
capsicum I will look at the site - I don't think school will exclude (I hope not) but I don't want DC to be the 'problem' child IYSWIM…

I hate this new mobile site.

Sorry, what I meant to say I've read on threads about toilet training older children that the issue is often constipation.

DS2 was at least 3 and a half before he cracked it - he just wasn't ready. Other parents pissed me off royally with their tales of how easy it was. It is shit - literally.

I do see what you mean OP. Schools and nurseries should not discriminate, although I think this country's educational system has a long way to go regarding inclusion.

Sadly I have come against some prejudice regarding my DC's 'additional needs', but often it is not intentional. However I also know children most often get over early incontinence issues and it is not uncommon at all.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things and nursery really shouldn't discriminate for this.

haha love that, You're

I think it's all tied into constipation Hons but it seems to have moved waaay beyond that…

I'm very surprised your HV said that, I work in early years at a setting with around 50 children between 2 and 4 and we have a couple every year in the same kind of position with and without the constipation and movicol.

Oddboots I'm glad to hear that. It does feel like we are the only ones. This thread is already making me feel better….

DD is 3 and has just started nursery. She is still in nappies (trying to potty train right now though). Nursery have been fine about this.

I have TT four children. My twins were polar opposites - girl twin did it herself really at just over two ... She got out the party and started using it! Boy twin was a totally different story. He was really resistant. I kept hoping he would get interested. But we got to age 3 and 5m, it was August, school nursery was looming.

We sat him on the potty in front of the tv for ages and had a timer going off every 15 mins and rewarded him for sitting on it.

He begun to get the idea of wees but wouldn't poo.

Nursery started and sent him in, in pants, very nervously. Day 1 was ok. He pooed in his overnight nappy that morning.

Day 2 he pooed in his pants at school and I was called in to change him. Days 3-5 were a repeat.

I then got a call from the nursery teacher saying she thought we should keep him home till he was potty trained properly.

I was very cross! I took both of the twins out for the week, sent them
Back to the little pre school they had been at previously, and stayed off work to practice the whole toilet thing.

I could hardly send his sister but not him.

I did a lot of research into continence issues and schools.

In brief
Can't discriminate
It's an inclusion issue
If you intimate there is a possible medical condition, they have to really careful to support the child
Doctors don't worry about it till child is much older
There are continence clinics but they won't see a 3 year old
Teachers are not expected to deal with toiletting needs at all
Support staff/nursery nurses should have it in their contracts or have agreed to do it
It's a school management issue to arrange it and facilities

School should now have a care of pupils with medical conditions policy, if not a toiletting one

Once I met with the head and the nursery teacher they were very aplogetic.

I did agree to go to the school to go in when
Possible to change him if necessary (though they couldn't expect that)

They took on the task of getting him to sit on the loo several times each session and he actually did his first poo there

It took another 2 years before I stopped carrying spare pants everywhere with me though. He needs to go very very urgently, is the problem. If there is no toilet nearby, still a bit fearful about accidents is 6.5 now.

Littlest child starts school nursery this sept (different school)
I phoned them to check policy, they said no problem.

Littlest was also a refusenik, right up to 8 weeks ago. Then we just did it, once he was prepared to cooperate it was easy. It was mental disagreement rather than physical unpreparedness that was his problem.

This really helped though www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B006DLFHZS/ref=pd_aw_sbs_1?pi=SL500_SS115&simLd=1

It Let him be independent.

With your little one, gave you tried a sticker chart and choc button rewards and a timer, just to sit on the loo for 5 minutes every 30 or 60 minutes?

No pressure to perform at all.

Just familiarisation

Though I do know that children with constipation are much harder to toilet train. With him now on movicol, he probably still doesn't have the normal sensations of needing to go.

The Eric website is very good, and has detailed advice.

I think sitting on the loo regularly morning at night, at least, and relaxing a bit (look at a book?) is a good step and encouraging a regular schedule for poo is good.

He is out of nappies? Some sort of pad or pull-up might be an idea at least at first, to remove the possibility of a lot of mess/health hazard in the nursery that might make him feel very self conscious.

Email the school, now. Ask to speak to the nursery teacher before term starts.

Try not to worry. It's not a measure of good parenting. Actually, you are being a good parent by supporting him with his specific needs and timeframe for doing things. X

I got a call from the HV, referring DC to gastro clinic and she was lovely. Made me feel a) much better b) not a crap mother c) at least took me seriously after all the times I got palmed off. So finally feels like I may get some help for DC. Such a relief…

theladybirdheard
I am having the same issue with my 2.8 year old DS. Though he is a lot younger than your son.
We started in the April (2years, 3 months). he had been using the potty/toilet for wees with us for months when we went and then on Good Friday he announced he wasn't going to trump or poo because he was a big boy!?!?!? Still to this day, do not know why he came out with that! So we decided to progress to big boy pants.
DS has managed fine with wees but he holds his poo, gets constipated and then struggles and we get lumps of poo up to 7/8 times a day - enough to need changing! GP put him on a laxative - that didn't work and when I took him to the GP for an emergency appointment for something else, he was skid-marking his pants, refusing to go, holding it in so the GP saw first-hand. I felt like it took something like that for him to take me seriously. He was put on movicol at the beginning of July.
On holiday in Turkey, pottyt training went out the window. He refused to entertain the toilets, couldn't/wouldn't due to being so far away and distraction but he did poop everday because he would only eat the coco pops and chocolate cake on offer. It wasn't an issue - he was in nappies for refusing to use the loo.
On return, we were back to square one. We've been back 4 weeks and he has done 2 actual poos - once on the potty and once in his nappy. He is holding his poo, denying he needs the loo and consequently we get leakages that require a change -sometimes 5 a day. Tried with pants/nappies and still the same. He won't poo ANYWHERE! I may have to up the movicol to 2 sachets a day because his poo is soft but so compacted it is sticky and thick.
I am finding it frustrating and upsetting because he's due to start nursery in January 2015 and I don't want him stigmatised for soiling himself. I am struggling with the constant pant changes and still needs changing if in nappies. Like I said, will happily wee but just will not poo.