4.5 yr old still pooimg his pants

[Jessica99]

I have never posted on the Internet but am desparate for some advice from anyone sharing a similar problem.
I potty trained my ds at 3 years old. He was very ready and within a few days completely got it and even when soon after he had a bad tummy bug he still went on the potty. He was even dry at night.

About 6 weeks later I had to go into hospital with pregnancy complications with my now dd. I was only in for a few days but did have to go in a couple more times until she was born (only for a few days). The only reason I mention this is because I'm not sure if this is a trigger.
My ds started to poo his pants and it built up to the point where he started to hide. He was at nursery at the time and not sure if there was negativity around it here. We tried everything from then on ie stickers, charts, presents, more presents, praise, encouragement. Mum friends said it would just go right one day. We have had periods of some success with a lot of hardwork. Even when we see that look on his face and say 'ok let's go to the loo' he will refuse to go to the loo and will either wait and do it a few minutes later in his pants or hold it and sometimes for days.
Anyway he is now 4.5 and he is still doing it. He is at preschool nursery and I quite often get parcels of dirty clothes. He even wees himself regularly now unless I ask him to go to the toilet for a wee every hour or so. He is sometimes ok with this and goes himself.
Sorry for the long story. Would appreciate any suggestions or reassurance as I feel it will never end. I feel like I spend my days clearing up poo.

I have a 4 year old poo refuser too. He'll hold it in for days and deny he needs to go. Like you, we've tried everything. What seems to work to some extent, although by no means every time, is to catch him when he's hotcheting around holding his crotch, make him sit on the mini toilet (a potty with a lid which we line with a cheap nappy). He then sits there, usually howling, and we try to calm him down with lots of encouragement, singing the poo song, letting him play x-box, role playing with Mr Hankey the Christmas poo from South Park, letting him blow bubbles (relaxes the sphincter apparently), and if he does a poo we give him either a Hot Wheels car or a star for his chart.
Frustrating, isn't it

Please, please google encopresis, then make an appointment to see your GP and get a referral. The quicker you do this, the more likely you are to get the right treatment.

Wow, very quick replies, thank you. It is good to know others are experiencing similar things at the same age. I have to admit I've been pushed to the limit and have lost my rag a few times after spending a year being positive. Then I have felt like the worst mum in the world and feel like I've hindered things further. I've spoken to the hv who has advised all sorts of weird suggestions. I even got a nappy out to put on ds and he went ballistic and shut his legs tight so I couldnt put it on so that made me feel dreadful. Still didn't stop him pooimg himself the next day.
Never heard of encopresis so will google for sure.

I just need to take a step back and breath :)

I didn't have time to post much about this as i was on my way out. However, this subject has been discussed at great length on MN. It is a very serious issue and needs proper investigation and treatment. The longer it is left, the longer it takes to solve, and the more damage is done to the bowel.

An abdominal Xray to look for impaction is very important. Not all GPs or HCPs are knowledgeble about encopresis/ witholding, and you may have to be persistant.

Hopefully you will have googled and searched on MN for other threads by now and will have more information and understanding so that you can get appropriate help.

I cannot stress enough how important it is to get on top of this before school age. there is no quick fix, and treatment usually takes months if not years, but it is worth it in the end.

I will see if I can find another recent thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/childrens_health/a1439931-Recurring-constipation-faecal-loading-please-help

Hi 3littlefrogs, thank you for all the information i do appreciate your help and suggestion. I have read up on this and I don't think this is the problem. He isn't constipated but he does hold it because he doesn't want to go for whatever reason in his head. This in turn does make it difficult to go after about three days. There is no leakage that is mentioned around encopresis. I spoke to the hv about it also and she doesn't think it sounds like this. He has got into a habit we need to break. My hv is coming to visit next week to discuss in more length so hoping to come up with some solutions.
Thanks again for your help.
CuppaTeaJanice, we do the same as you and try and catch the moment. Once he is on the loo he is quite accepting but the urge has usually passed by this time. I will let you know if hv has any new suggestions that you could try also with your ds. happy pooing:-)

I have the same problem, although not for as long. my ds(3 & 3/4yrs) went into pants 4 weeks ago. after 3-4 days he had mastered the weeing and will not ask to go to the toilet or even take himself to the potty. however in those 4 weeks we've never had a poo anywhere except the pants.

He seems to have some block about it, we will ask him if he needs the toilet and he'll say no but then poo, i've even had occasion when he's taken himself for a wee and minutes later poo's in his pants. hubby is getting quite frustrated and can get cross with ds, i'm trying hard to stay calm.

ds know's that he will get a reward when it happens - new star wars pants and even tells me we will go get them when he poo's on the toilet. we get to the point where he poo's and we are cleaning him up and he says 'tomorrow mum i'll go on the toilet and we can go buy some new pants' but as they say tomorrow never comes....

Jessica99 i would be very interested to hear what your hv has to say.

We too have this problem - our DS is 3.5 and has been dry for almost 6 months, he will hide & unless we keep an eye on him 24/7 will quickly poo in his pants when we're not looking ...... it is so frustrating. Twice today he has gone upstairs hidden in OUR bed & poo'd his pants. It has taken quite a bit of effort from me & DH not to get really angry with him as we are sick of the place smelling of poo (especially our bed!!!) He does the same at nursery - if you ask him to go to the loo he will do a wee but no do a poo, sometimes he does a tiny one, but never the whole lot!

My ds is a lot older now but we had the same problem at 4-6 years old. It wasn't constipation in the end despite all the health professionals(consultant included) telling us it would be. It was that he didn't have mature enough nerves telling him in advance that he needed to go and when he felt the urge there were other things to do or the toilet wasn't near and he knew he wasn't going to make it.

I had some medicine prescribed that slowed down the bowels pushing urge and also made a not of the times of the day that he was going. We then had to get the nursery or school to agree to let him go to the toilet at these times every day and someone encourage him to sit there until he had gone. I also had to remove fruit and other roughage based foods from his diet and then very slowly reintroduce them.

It took a while and we still have occasional slip ups when he can't get there but it's a lot better and he is aware that this is a problem so deals with it himself.

Good luck and don't feel bad about shouting. I did that, cried, sticker charted, rewarded, punished and every other trick that was suggested but it didn't work. Time was the answer.

We had this with DS. He was 5.5.before we got it sorted. I knew it wasn't anything to do with constipation as he only ever did it when at home and the whole point was that he had total control over it. He never, not once did it at nursery (or reception when he started school) and as he was full time there from the age of 6 months that was no mean feat which made me even crosser.

We did absolutely everything imaginable but he would happily poo in his pants and then just sit there in them. he didn't seem bothered. I did find out getting really cross and angry was really counter productive (and trust me I did get really cross at times). We made most progress when we stayed calm whilst letting him know it was unacceptable. The final turning point was when he was invited for a sleep over at his best friend's house. I said I didn't think I could agree unless I was happy he wouldn't embarrass himself pooing in his his pants. It finally did the trick. He stopped pooing in his pants and he got his sleepover.

I think the problem was caused by the fact he can't stand missing out on anything and we only have one toilet upstairs. he told me he didn't like going to the toilet because it was 'boring'. However when it comes to pooing he is very private (he's now 8 and will always insist on locking the toilet when he has a poo but will happy get his willy out for a wee anywhere and everywhere for a wee). Therefore he wouldn't do poos on the potty downstairs in front of the tv or whatever because he didn't want us to see him doing them.

On one very odd occasion he'd had a bath and we'd come downstairs. He started getting really agitated saying he'd needed his pants because he was going to have a poo!! I grabbed the potty and I had to force him down on to it because he was refusing to sit on it and the poo was on it's way out but he wanted his pants!!

interesting replies - thanks ! so glad others are sharing in our pain - hope that doesn't sound mean because I'm sure you know where I'm coming from :) I feel bad getting upset with DS cos he is such a sweetie, but poo clean up sometimes 3 times a day is just so wearing espec with a 9 month old (although at least hers are in a nappy)

We're three months in with DD (3) and she's exactly the same. She doesn't withhold, just refuses to go on the loo and does it in her pants. It's so frustrating, as she's pretty dry in the day and even at night. No chance I'm taking her nappy off at night, don't want to clean shitty sheets. Any advice would be gratefully received

I haven't caught up with this thread for a while until today so really interesting and reassuring that there are others out there with same problem.

My hv came and spent a long time with me talking about it. I was concerned about the possibility of it being a medical condition and did take him to the dr to at least rule that out and it was ruled out. My hv said that it is immaturity in that area and it would come right in the end. She suggested chatting with him and letting him have control. So I did. I said mummy wants to help and what would he like to help him. I asked if he wanted the potty back and he said yes. So the potty is back - he did a few wees on it but no poos - all in his pants. After feeling encouraged when hv came I feel quite negative about it again. There is absolutely no progress. I'm fed up with clearing up poo. I'm trying to remain calm and think 'well he will get it one day'. The hv says it might click into place when he is in reception and other kids say something. She says at the moment he doesn't seem bothered about the consequences, which is correct as he will quite happily play with a pants full of poo.
I suppose we can take comfort that an 18 year old doesn't do this so it should be sorted by then :-)