Dd refusing to sit on loo or potty

[MakeHayAndSneeze]

She is 3.2 and refuses point blank to sit on either. She has some lovely knickers, which she chose. I ask her if she would like to sit on it, she says no. I have bribed her with chocolate buttons, which worked for a couple of days (she'd sit on it, but absolutely not wee). I've put her nappy free; she asks for a nappy on when she needs to go, refused to even have a go on the loo. I had hoped that seeing other children using the loo at pre-school might encourage her, but no.

The biggest problem really is that if it was just a refusal I'd probably try cold turkey, but she gets really upset at the thought of going on the loo, and e one time I did try her in knickers she wet them once and was then inconsolable next time she had to go.....

What to do? I don't want to traumatise her, but I don't think she'll ever be ready....

Oh, if it's relevant, she used to be in cloth but we switched to spouses a few months ago as she was getting very sore and two children (ds is 13 months) was a lot to cope with. I do wonder if trying her in cloth again so they were not quite as comfortable would help!

Turn it into a game? The only way I can get my 2 yo dd to do anything I want is to tell her not to do it e.g. "No dd, don't sit on the loo. No, don't. If you do I will be very cross. Very, very cross. Oh no! Nooooo!!! You've sat on the loo. I"m going to have cry" (cue long loud wailing from me) etc. Just try and muck around and take the pressure off?

Or alternatively, say you need a wee but you don't want to sit on the loo, that you're scared, that you hate it etc. Again turn it into a ridiculous game. Be completely over the top. Run around yelling "I'm going to do a wee on the floor". See what she does. Sometimes putting them in a powerful position (her telling you what to do) can make them feel better about themselves and can alter the situation. I know this idea sounds bonkers, but I read a great book by a play therapist (Playful Parenting) and these were the kind of techniques he recommended. I haven't tried these role reversal ideas for potty training, but I have for other issues and they have been surprisingly successful.

In the meantime, potty training is a nightmare. You have my sympathy and best of luck.

You could have written about my dd! We had the exactly the same problem...in the end, we went could turkey (it was the last resort!). Anyhow, she wee'd on her feet 3 times, each time getting a little upset, and I just calmly cleaned it up, saying never mind, next time on potty. And do you know... the next time she did! She had a few accidents the first week, and poos took a bit longer to sort, but lots and lots of praise and calm cleaning up did the trick for us :) Keep going... I thought she'd never get there, but she has now. Huzzah! She's 2.10 btw.

Oh, I also read 'stress free potty training' which also helped.

neolara - thank you for that suggestion, I have that book so I'll go back and have another look. I think it's the pressure thing that I'm concerned about; I try to be casual about it, but I am getting a little bit worried esp as she is the only one of her peers not in knickers and she is sooooo anti the idea.

franticallyjugglinglife thank you for the book recommendation, I'll look it out. I keep thinking that I'll wait till the nice weather and let her run around outside nappy free. So, sometime in 2015 then!

i also read 'stress free potty training' which was very good and much better for me than Gina Fords 'Potty Training in One Week' which made me feel under pressure. I started potty training DD very late (3 years 8 months) as she had a stool witholding problem that we had to deal with first. I thought, being so old that she'd get it straight away. But i was wrong! She refused to sit on the potty. So she spent about 2 months wetting herself all the time when she was at home, but at pre-school she would sometimes use the potty or the toilet. We figured she was in a battle of wills with us but not with the pre-school teachers. She's very strong willed. After 2 months, she caught ear infection,tonsillitis, diarrhea and vomiting, all at the same time. So i put pull-ups on her for 2 weeks while she was ill. At the end of it she was reluctant to go back to pants, but found that she was better at using the potty. Maybe the break took the pressure away? The wee accidents have reduced. She occasionally has them at pre-school, and sometimes here, but we are moving in the right direction. I also started to make her responsible for her wee accidents by making her change out of her wee clothes and put them in a bucket, and then change into her clean clothes herself. She was very resistant about it, because she wanted the attention from me, even though it's negative attention, so i'd sit there reading a book in the bathroom whilst she defiantly refused to change out of her wee clothes and eventually she'd change them and then i'd make her wash her hands. This helped. Gets very boring and tiring for them doing it 10 times a day. Good luck. I know it feels like it's never going to get better but it will. xxxxxxxx We're still not sorted on the pooh front and she's nearly 4 so i've started a thread about that.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, trackies - I think stubbornness is definitely part of dd's refusal! It's good to know that progress can be made eventually. Good luck with your dd.

I meant to ask before I posted, did/does your dd get distressed at all when she wet herself? How do you get over that?

Yes she did get upset about wetting herself at the beginning, as she felt under pressure to get it in the potty, so i'd give her lots of hugs and tell her accidents are ok. The lady who runs pre-school said to leave lots of books and toys near the potty. Not necessarily hygenic but helps to take their mind off it. I used to read her stories whilst she was on the potty to help her relax. Occasionally, i put the potty infront of the tv so she can watch her favourite tele programme too. Another mistake i made was asking DD every 10 mins if she needed to go. I did this in the early days. She was feeling nagged. So i stopped asking her at all and told her it was her it was her responsibility. Apparently, this helps with older children. re: 'Stubborness' - when i looked like i didn't care about whether she wet herself or not, she got better. It's so difficult when you have a feisty child xxx

MakeHay, what about having a race with her to see who gets there first, let her win obviously? Or why not enlist little DS and ask if DD would like to join you on a potty party in the bathroom, you sit on loo, they both sit on potties, have sweets at the ready. She might conform, if only to not be outdone by a baby! Plus she isn't being singled out while he still uses his nappies. See who can wee first!

Reassure about the knickers, pop them in the wash, show her that they have come to no harm by being wet.

Something else that has been tried is a gradual approach where a DC who asks for nappies is persuaded to sit on the potty with a nappy on, then line the potty with the nappy, then a nappy draped over with a slit cut in it so that poos will land in the potty but there is still that secure feel of the nappy, finally move on to a pad of loo roll in the potty and then nothing. This approach has also been used for fear of pooing in the loo, usually once they have conquered their fear and the world hasn't ended they are fine with it. I should add that if you're going to cut holes in nappies and use them to line potties, buy cheap value disposable ones!

I think your DD has a fear of wees and poos dropping away from her. You could stipulate that she must go to the bathroom/toilet to use the nappy as a nappy, thus depriving her of TV/DVD, or sit on the lined potty while watching them which mightprompt her into trying.

MakeHayAndSneeze,

Here's a link i used:-
en.allexperts.com/q/Pediatrics-1429/Toilet-training-resistance-3.htm

Best of luck. xx

Fantastic comments, thank you both. trackie I think I might be guilty of the nagging thing, I'll back off. girly she does love races (and winning! I blame her father..!) so I'll try that too. It's the fear thing I'm worried about - I don't know where it's come from, she sees me all the time (no privacy...) and has never had a toilet-related accident. Someone suggesed getting a throne-potty so it's more comfortable; it sounds like it would be worth trying the incremental technique with one of those.

I left it with DS1 until he was almost 3. I had been sitting him on the potty and reading stories for weeks, months...with a nil result! Eventually I went cold turkey, and within a month or so we had cracked it.

DS2 was a bit younger, but had more relapses. Also had absolutely no issues about wees, but took a lot longer to get poos sorted. He would hold it in until we put night nappy on...I once realised he was going, and yanked nappy off...to get it in potty. Only to end up catching it in my hand.

Good luck.

There is a school of thought that some DC are afraid that they are losing a part of their body when they go to the loo. Some can only cope with pooing in a nappy because it is just a misshapen mess, whereas in a potty or loo it looks more like a body part or a snake. Others can't cope with the splashback that occurs sometimes as it lands in the loo. Some think they will fall down the loo and be flushed away, and others are scared that it will hurt every time if they've been constipated, or weeing will sting if they've had a urine infection.

Perhaps if you can explain in simple terms that wee and poo are waste products of what we eat and drink, and we do not need them anymore DD will feel more inclined to let go of them.

Thank you again for taking the time to post, it is hugely appreciated. I was thinking about all this today and realised that dd has a long history of v solid poos, presctibed lactulose etc. So perhaps it has hurt her in the past and this is an association. She's also very bright, so talking to her about it all can't hurt.

Has anyone's HV been any use? Is it worth contacting them too? Is there a "red flag" age or something?

Very good point about more comfortable potty. DD hated sitting on standard potty as her bum would hurt, so we got her Summer Infant All In One Potty And Step Stool in Pink and she definitely prefers it to a standard potty.
My HV told me to get her a potty flute as when they blow it helps get the pooh out, but this has not worked for DD yet. Might by worth asking them though. Any ideas are worth trying.

I think we had progress today - when she didn't want a nappy changed, I told her we had to take the old (saggy) one off but she could choose knickers or nappy - in the event she wanted neither, just tights - ho hum! Anyway, as well as that (and wearing knickers later) she also sat on her potty for extended periods of time, either reading, being read to or playing on the ipad . No wee on it, and 2 wet knickers, but at least she's not running away from it and I reckon if we do this while at home, the rest will click eventually.