What do I do next (she's nearly 4)

[Lollydaydream]

Hi,

I'm hoping someone will have some inspiration for me, I've been toilet training dd since she was 2 1/2 and she will be 4 in February. We started when she refused to put nappies on and was keen and at first it all went quite well but after a few months it all started to go down hill. We are currently at the point where, say 8/10 times she arrives at the toilet with wet knickers, she almost never asks to go and tends to always say no if I ask if she needs to go (even when it is blindingly obvious she needs to)

I've arrived at this point (which believe me is better than where we were) by implementing a sticker chart where she gets a sticker for going, one for having dry knickers and one for washing her hands; so if I ask her to go and she says no I take her and she only gets 2 stickers. She also gets a sticker on her wall at the end of the day if she's managed to stay dry all day (cannot remember the last time we managed that) When she needs clean clothes I get her to get them herself. I generally only give her water to drink as squash seemed to exacerbate the problem.

So we have made progress, but toileting is still an issue where I feel for other children her age is it not (plus the laundry.....) Also now she seems to have lost interest in the sticker chart. Even when she's had success she doesn't want to put the stickers on and now I find myself either putting them on myself or badgering her to put stickers on a chart as well as go to the toilet. If I ask her why she gets wet knickers she just says it just comes out. Yesterday my mum said to her she could have a lemonade if she stays dry for a week and she becomes distraught because to her you are saying she can't have lemonade.

She has had (does have) communication issues with late developing/ disordered speech and glue ear and is now at a nursery with speech therapy input most days - this has meant she has had quite a lot of change and is having to work on areas that are challenging to her so an anxiety issue around this seems to be likely, the speech problems also mean that she is very frustration prone and 'no' is her default answer to everything, which is what makes this particularly difficult because I can prompt all I like but she will not co-operate.

I am considering when it's the holidays and we have time at home going back to bare bottom and not prompting her at all, but with lots of stickers etc for success, to see if this will help get her back to basics and understand that she can control it. Does this sound like a good idea or a recipe for disaster? Or do I just carry on pushing the sticker chart. Any thoughts would be appreciated...........

I'll be brief, but honest: I think you're giving the whole issue WAY too much attention. I felt a bit harassed just reading your post. The sticker thing sounds too full-on

Try to pay ZERO attention to wet pants, nice but neutral praise to dry

DS2 is nearly 5 and we battled this for about 2 years, much as you described, starting when he was 2.6. The main problem with him is that he was just not emotionally engaged in the whole thing. He really didn't want to stop doing anything (he still doesn't tbh) to go to the toilet. If I were you, I'd forget about the sticker chart if your DD isn't interested.

Is she dry at night? The thing that surprised us was that when we took him out of night time nappies about 6 months ago he was immediately dry right through. Thus demonstrating that it's not something physical during the day. But, getting rid of night time nappies helped a bit with the day time thing, and, hate to say it, but starting school also helps. We still have to pester him to go, but he usually makes it in time!

I think backing off would be a good idea. If she has an accident then no fuss just provide her with clean clothes. If she takes herself to the toileta nd makes it in time then praise her but keep it laid back. I know the endless washing is frustrating so if posible buy a load of value knickers and joggers so you have plenty of spares. If you are asking her if she needs the toilet every 5 mins she will never learn to recognise it for herself.

Sticker charts are great but it needs to be simple and achievable.

Hmm, yes I think the stickers have run their course, I'm bored of talking about it, she's probably bored of hearing about it. I don't constantly remind her throughout the day, more at set appropriate intervals (getting up, before leaving the house, before dinner etc) or if she's hopping up and down from one leg to another.

The three stickers thing was suggested to me as rewarding baby steps towards going properly, if I just say she can have a sticker for going she never gets one because she always has wet knickers. It has also given me some leverage in 'you can go to the toilet on your own and have 3 stickers, or I'll take you and you have 2' which is a less pressured than just talking at her until she goes. So I think it has helped, it's just she's now lost interest.

I think like your son midnightexpress she is just not emotionally engaged with it, it doesn't matter to her. (or it matters so much she's decided she can't cope) I've tried backing off before but it has previously resulted in worse regression and she hardly ever takes herself of by herself or makes it on time so there's no opportunity for praise at all.
She is generally dry at night if we get her out of her pull up by 7 / 7.30am; I'm planning to try her without pullups at night during the Christmas holiday I have wondered before whether the night time thing is confusing her.

I think the sticker chart was probably too complicated and not all children are motivated by stickers. Ds certainly isn't! Ds also has speech and language issues.
I would go back to basics, take her every 15 to 20 minutes regardless and give a chocolate button whenever there is success. If she has an accident look a bit disappointed but don't make massive issue out of it.

are you sure there is no medical reason? We went through years of stress when actually there was a simple medical reason. We had no ideal and like yourselves thought it was lack of emotional engagement with the idea.

Also all advice is to ensure children drink more water not less to build up bladder capacity and hence control.

How does she manage at nursery or elsewhere?