Toilet/potty refuser - screaming tantrums at the very suggestion - I've just smacked him :-(

[notanumber]

DS is 2.11. We have had two abortive attempts at potty taining.

He can wee and poo on demand if he's in the right mood, and occasionally he'll identify that he needs a poo, so he is pretty "ready" I think, whatever that means.

The previous attempts have ended because he has basically refused to have anything to do with the potty or toilet and had enormous screaming tantrums at the mere suggestion of a trip to the loo, and his behaviour generally became problematic.

He is usually a good little boy and the whole business was clearly making him so angry and distressed and I was frustrated and irritated and it was really affecting our relationship, so we went back to nappies and everything was happier.

For the last week we've been potty training lite (we are not in pants, just pull-ups, but I am taking him to the toilet regularly for wees and poos). Sometimes he goes and has mostly been fairly co-operative (I bribe him and this works some of the time) but today he has reverted to the screaming "no! I don't want to!" and refusing to go near the toilet, tantruming and crying.

Today he hs refused to even try. I have told him it doesn't matter if he can't go, he just needs to sit on the toilet and try, if there is nothing happening then he can get straight off again but he has point blank refused. (He has had wet nappies, so it's not a physical problem.)

His behaviour around the toilet makes me so stressed and angry and I'm so ashamed but I really lost it with him just now and smacked his bottom. I know - flame me - I deserve it.

Things can't go on like this but I just don't know what to do for the best.

I know that we could go back to nappies but he's three in a few weeks and I'm really feeling the social pressure to have him out of nappies - he's tall for his age so I do feel extra judged!. Also, I worry that if I wait for him to be "ready" that will never happen as he is quite happy wearing nappies - being wet or dirty doesn't bother him at all.

Two further bits of context are that my mother has just been diagnosed with cancer (terminal - she only has a few months probably) and I am not really in a good frame of mind which probably isn't helping. Also I have a 0.7 DD who needs attention.

Any advice?

Just felt I had to answer your post notanumber.

Sounds like you have a lot on your plate ATM, so maybe going back to nappies might be good for you for now. My DS1 is 3.8 and only toilet trained at 3.5 and I felt like he should be out of nappies by 3, and then 3 and a half which is why we had another big push. Now he's regressing, with wet/dirty pants/trousers and I am tempted to go back to nappies too. It shouldn't be this hard! DD was dry by her second birthday- they are all different.

What do you bribe him with - would something else make him more tempted to try?

Sorry to hear about your mother.

Re potty training wait til you have no other major stresses. You can't put yourself through potty training right now. Give yourself a break and leave it a few months. In the meantime he may surprise you by asking for the potty.

Take care of yourself.

I agree, you have far too much going on and it has just become a battle. I have only just potty trained my DS and he is nearly 3.5. You have plenty of time and when you are all in a better frame of mind it will surely go more smoothly (or at least you will feel more able to cope with it). When you say he doesn't mind being wet or dirty - that sounds just like my DS! But I didn't do pull ups, just went straight to pants and it is a completely different kind of wet and dirty iyswim - far more uncomfortable and my DS didn't like it at all. But I still think you should wait a little while. I know plenty of little boys who did not potty training until later. Take care and good luck.

I know someone who not only used smarties as bribes but then ate one herself when her kids wouldn't cooperate when potty training. Harsh but brilliant, will be giving it a go when I have to go through it all. May be worth one last push so that you don't have it hanging over you when you are trying to spend time with your mum. Sorry to hear about that. Chin up, I am sure you are doing brilliantly x

Thanks for replying pikachu and iwishiwasasleep.

pikachu - bribes need to be varied or they stop working (and even then not always successful). Ranges from chocolate buttons to CBeebies magazines to a jigsaw..... But if he's not in the mood he just screams that he doesn't want the bribe - even if it's something he loves.

Threats sometimes work ("if you don't do a wee then we aren't going to soft play / I will take away one of your cars / you can't watch Something Special"...

Nothing seems to work even halfway consistently.

iwishiwasasleep - the thing is, it's only going to get more stressful. I mean, my mum is going to get iller and then die and then I will be grieving....I can't delay DS' potty training until after that point, and starting again in the midst of that is probably a recipe for disater.

So sorry to hear about your mum. Be gentle with yourself and if you are not ready to potty train DS- then don't. Ignore any social pressure- it'll happen when you and DS are ready.

Just a note on bribes- the (ahem) penny dropped for DD1 when she saw her BF getting a chocolate button for doing a wee on the toilet. Suddenly she saw a good reason for all the toilet fuss. It worked for us!

Greedygirl - You're right about it being a battle. I was determined not to let it deteriorate to that this time hence the pull-ups. Oh, the road to hell...

We did pants in attempts #1 and #2. He wasn't bothered. He'd have happily stayed in damp or shitty pants all day.

We're doing pull-ups this time to try to reduce the pressure IYKWIM. The idea being that it doesn't matter if he goes in the nappy a bit as long as he is also making regular toilet trips to get him used to it. Not that it seems to be working .

Regs74 - doesn't work on my DS I'm afraid. But fingers crossed that it's the magic bullet for you!

Think of it this way....he will not wish to be in nappies for much longer. You are very stressed about it and so is he. Wait a few more weeks, he will calm down and feel less fraught about it and so will you.
You have an awful lot on your plate at the moment. Have you contacted Macmillan? They are truly amazing and will help you and all your family cope better at this time.

My ds was like this. We put him back in nappies and didn't mention it for a few weeks just so the negative associations would go. Then gently introduced the idea of a nappy fairy who was going to come the day after he turned three and was going to take away all the nappies to give to babies, and leave a present and some big boy pants. Present was a very desirable truck. We reminded him about it every day and he began to accept it.

Nappy fairy visited as planned, big boy pants put on, two accidents the first day, two on the second, and that was it, job done. He had been so resistant before, but this worked like a dream, thankfully.

FGM - Thanks, I'll ask a friend if we can engineer that scenario. I'm not feeling too optimistic though because he does understand about the relationship between the bribe and the production of wee/poo. If he's in the right mood he'll do it straight away and then ask for his bribe.

I expect you're right about the social pressure. It's really hard though!

I just wouldnt worry about it, you have far more important things to worry about without stressing about nappies. Even at 3 they are still fairly young its not a biggy. Dont make your time together a poo and wee battle.

Really sorry to hear your mum is so ill

Does he go to nursery/preschool at all? Can they help? If not, about time he did- get him into one and get them to help asap! Will give you a break too.

Very, very sorry to hear about your mum, btw.

swearymary - I worry though. He really doesn't care about being the only one of his peers (the ones he sees regularly) still in nappies. I'm not convinced that he'll suddenly want pants IYKWIM.

Re Macmillan, we've got their leaflets and stuff. Will try to contact them soon I think. Thanks for the reminder!

GoldenGreen - That's an idea. he is very routine focused and doesn't enjoy sudden change. You may be on to something with a slow build-up. Thank you - will definitely try that next time if we abort this current go-round.

monstermissy - thank you for your kindness. I think I'm just concerned that if I've got to much on my plate now, it's only going to get fuller. I'm concerned that if we dont get PT sorted now, I'll be trying to do it in the midst of an emotional mess or else he'll still be in nappies next year.

triskaidekaphile - nursery is the wrong setting for him. He is a very young 3 and dislikes change or large social settings. He was briefly with a CM (two days a week) from 0.10 - 1.11 but he was never very happy or comfortable there.

I am on maternity leave (with DC2) at the moment - though suspect given the situation with my mum I may not return to work at all - and he is at home with me full time.

I don't think that I could send him just to get him potty trained, having made the decision not to IYSWIM?

I'm not ant-nursey at all btw - DD may well go to one - it's just not the right environment for him.

He could be picking up on your stress about your mum. One of the few things that kids can control at roughly this age is wee/ poo. He could be showing stress by not wanting to use the toilet/ potty IYSWIM.

No one here is judging you for not having done PT yet. Everyone knows that it happens at different times for different kids. And it depends on what happens in the family's life too- for example there's no way I'm PT DD2 before DH's MBA is over . So what if her sister and BF was PT six months earlier!

As your DS gets older he will be able to negotiate his own feelings towards the toilet more easily. Yes, life may get more stressful for you because of your mums diagnosis, but it still may be a lot eaiser to wait until summer.

He will care though, he just doesn't yet. Children love attention and you giving him heaps because he cries at the mention of the toilet or potty will feed his desire for attention! Try not talking about potty training for a while. Relax yourself, take some time to have fun together.
If you are really desperate to get him out of nappies then can anyone else help? A good friend/nursery etc. Letting the child choose their pants is quite a good motivation but as I said he will eventually want to use the potty or toilet. Its really ok for him to still be in pull ups. Cut yourself some slack

I've not read all the posts, but I really wanted to say, please do go back to nappies, and please don't mention it again until he perhaps gives you a clear sign he is ready.

I know you KNOW this, but smacking him will have created an incredibly negative association for him with the potty. My sister had an incident like this - not smacking, but screaming in frustration - and her DS who as 2.5 at the time did not do a poo on even the toiled after that for close on two weeks. She had major issues with him witholding and it was so stressful for about 4 months after the event.

Sorry - you have so much on your plate right now, which is why you need to drop this and trust it will take care of itself later. Hope things get better soon.

Your approach to potty training isn't going to get you very far. You need to stop and try again when your son is ready.

You should never punish him for not wanting to sit on it because it'll just make him less likely to go. Generally my 3.2 year old (who is only just potty trained, because I waited) goes about an hour without needing to go. Asking him any more often isn't going to make him go any sooner.

When you do decide to do it then ditch the training pants. They confuse them. Go straight to normal pants. You might have one or two accidents, but they pick it up far quicker.

Sorry about your mum.

He is not ready. Yes he may be able to go on potty or toilet but at the moment he doesn't want to. Could be something to do with his younger sibling having nappies. Maybe he still wants to be babied a bit longer.

I am very sorry about your mum and I am sure things will get harder for you but you can't rush him because of that.

Waiting till he is ready will mean you don't really have to potty train - he will do it himself pretty much so don't worry that it will be just as hard then.

Don't feel under pressure because others are trained. Easy to say I know but there will always be other children that do things either earlier or later than your DS. Just rise above it. My DS had a bottle later than other children we knew. I just used to say that I was sure he would stop by secondary school and be interested in different bottles by uni!

Yours WILL potty train. But to his timetable not yours . And I gan guarantee it will be before secondary school!

I've just started with my 2.11 DS so I can sympathise. Also have a 13 week-old, so I'm generally not the most patient person right now.

I am determined, however, that we will not go back to nappies. It's good to be consistent and persistent, especially with the stubborn-minded ones. My DS would probably have happily stayed in nappies forever quite a long time. So, last week I said right, we're wearing pants now, no more nappies. Made a big deal about it, here's the potty and your sticker chart. Explained the reward system, and told him to tell me when he needs to go potty. (Method I've read about says not to ask them if they have to go, but rather get them to tell you when they need to go. Gives them the control.)

And, I've been watching him like a hawk; we've barely been out of the house all week. I've also tried to keep TV to a minimum as I find he zones out too much and doesn't realise he needs to go. We're always in the same room, so I can catch accidents and rush him straight off to the potty. Then, lots of praise for anything that ends up in the potty and a reward. If he ever refuses to sit down, or says he no longer needs a wee/poo, then I don't force him. If you don't get to the potty in time and nothing lands in it, then just clean him up without any comment. Just repeat that he needs to tell you.

It's been going OK. Still accidents 6 days on, and it's frustrating because I know he can do it. But, before a week ago, he had never even sat on the potty once - he always refused to "try". Somehow, I think the new fun pants, rewards/praise and giving him the control works better for him. I know the few times I've asked him if he needs a wee, he gives me a very frustrated "No!" So, I know to back off a bit and let him tell me when he needs one. He's one single minded boy!

I think you're right that it won't get any easier for you with your Mum (and I"m very sorry about her illness), so perhaps a "no going back" approach with a lot of patience might work. Good luck!

The more you describe him the more it really sounds like he's not ready yet, tbh. Leave it till the weather's a bit warmer and/or he's more interested. You really do have enough on your plate without this battle. And it's a battle that will be unwinnable if he's not developmentally ready.