DS is 4 next month and is not potty trained AT ALL!

[nikki1978]

Help! I have tried on and off for the last 18 months to get DS to potty train (only tried about 4 times altogether as with DD I left her to it and she got there in the end so I thought it would be the same here). He is a bit stubborn about sitting on the potty but I can get him to sit on it ok. If he goes around with no bottoms on all day and I tell him to sit on the potty once an hour he can go with no accidents. But he still hasn't managed one poo on the potty and he won't do ANYTHING on the potty of his own accord. Earlier he did a poo in his trousers and I asked if he had felt the poo coming and he said no. He doesn't seem to care when he is wet or dirty and can stay that way for ages. When he does do a wee he just does a dribble and rarely seems to empty his bladder even if I ask him to sit back down and try to 'get it all out'.

He starts school in Sept which I am very concious of but I am not pushing him. I have been very laid back about the whole thing and will try for a few days and if it doesn't work he goes back into pull ups and it doesn't get mentioned again.

Nursery are ok having him them there in nappies but keep mentioning when will I try him again and giving me leaflets and print outs on it.

This is getting really frustrating.

I have heard the advice just take away nappies and leave him to it entirely but I honestly think my entire house would be covered in wee and poo and he just would never get there. He just doesn't care!

HELP!!

Oh and I am using a bribe which works well but again it comes down to him only going when I tell him to!

Yes I think cold turkey
star chart to bribe him
look up boot camp on here
choc buttons and rioteous applause when he does something on potty

hiya
this is from cod's famous potty training bootcamp:

How do I do it :
You go COLD TURKEY - this is vital

You stay in for the first couple of days

You take them to the loo as oftne as you see fit - say every 30 mins

DO NOT ASK THEM -TAKE THEM

Distract them by a story or sweets for weeing in the correct place ( or telling you at anytime they need it even if they then miss the loo)

mine were never bothered by pottys - try the loo it makes life easier and more hygenic imfo

right

1. this is for any kid over the age of 2
2. imo the best age ie 2 - 2.5
3. there is NO going back

do not start if you are going to poof out

1. remmeber it is hard work - hence the training - yes life will be more difficult for a couple of weeks
2. do NOT use pull ups for day time naps or anythin short of a 2 hour journey
3. night training is a wholey seperate issue'

she also advocates :

when they perform on loo or potty you msut go crazy whoopign anc clapping
also pretend to ring pepoeple up ( or do if oyu haev understanding friends) to tlelt hem of the good news

and care mats (pampers from Boots) to put under potty training child in the car, pushchair, to make cleaning up not so bad

nappies allowed for naps and night time

I've heard boys are more difficult tbh!

There may be an issue with you reminding him. When DD was trying the first time I was always on at her, I was so worried about accidents. The second time I forced myself to relax and accept that there WOULD be accidents. I left her to it, and just told her that if she needed a wee she should use the potty. I didn't tell her when to sit on the potty and I didn't keep asking 'do you need a wee?' and she trained within a few hours.

Arrrgggghhhh I am struggling to keep my patience! He has done nothing on the potty today. Two wees and one poo in pants though. One of the wees and poos was while he was walking towards me with the potty to have another try.

I need to have a little scream

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you

He is going to be in nappies on his first day at school isn't he?

I feel tearful with frustration.

I took ds out of nappies and started potty training at 2.5

He finally "got it" on almost exactly his 4th birthday. In between times we had a lot of accidents and me taking him to the toilet as much as possible. Crazy in retrospect that we didn't just go back to pullups, but there you go.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that the change was really quick - it was like ds (who also didn't care about being wet or dirty) suddenly decided that he wanted to be clean and dry and so started paying attention to the feelings and acting on them. Nothing that we did changed.

We tried so many charts, small bribes, being cross, ignoring, being amazingly excited when things went well - nothing really worked but he is now reliably clean and dry and we're ditching the night nappies at the weekend, one month on.

Any suggestions then suzi?

Everyone including nursery is saying just go cold turkey.

There's a reason why a cold turkey method works. It sounds as though your DS doesn't understand that there is a 'right' and 'wrong' place for doing a wee or a poo. I'd ditch the potty, use the toilet instead and go cold turkey. If you have had a few periods when you have tried to get him to give up nappies and given up then the message you have inadvertently given him is that there are a whole range of different ways to go to the toilet. You need to get him to understand that there is only one way! So, put him in pants and trousers, and get him to use the loo using Cod's cold turkey plan. When he does something unpleasant in his trousers, don't be in a terrible rush and fuss to clean him up, and point out how smelly and uncomfortable he must feel. He won't go to school in nappies - you'll crack it really quickly as he is old enough to really understand what's going on. But you have to really commit to it for a week - you won't be going out much and you will be doing a lot of washing!

I think the nursery is right, you need to go cold turkey. I also think you need professional help for your son's sake. Could you contact your local surestart or health visitor for advice. They can help formulate a plan and support you.

It is not a reflection of your parenting. Sometimes children struggle with particular skills. There may well be an underlying reason. Prehaps its worth talking to your GP.

I disagree with telling a child how smelly they are or leaving them in a mess. A child with incontinance problems should be treated with dignity. It is not your son's fault.

My son struggled with learning to walk. Struggling with the potty is no more shameful.

Just thinking, is it an option to have him in nursery full time for a week and have them do the training?

Certainly its what my daughter's day nursery offers. Especially if you choose a quiet time like the middle of the holidays.

"I disagree with telling a child how smelly they are or leaving them in a mess. A child with incontinance problems should be treated with dignity. It is not your son's fault. "

I guess that's aimed at me reallytired. I certainly agree that children should treated with dignity. The OP wrote: "He doesn't seem to care when he is wet or dirty". In my view, for many children, feeling that being wet or dirty is unpleasant is a learnt response. Unless someone points out to him that it's not nice, he won't see why he should use the toilet. I'm not advocating humiliating or leaving soiled clothes to fester, just that whisking him up and changing him and saying nothing won't achieve the goal of getting him to realise that he needs to use the toilet. There's a big difference between humiliating a child and saying in a matter of fact way "Gosh, those trousers must feel a bit icky". I truly can't see that the latter does any harm.

If there is a medical problem then he needs help, but no other poster or the OP seem to think that this is the case - the child's not 4 years old yet and with the trend for very late toilet training I would imagine the OP is not the only person who has been in this situation.

Sorry, no advice nikki. Cold turkey didn't work for us (well it did but it took 1.5 years ). However, I think after a certain point it's more publically acceptable to have a child with wet or dirty pants, which is considered an accident, rather than in nappies.

I didn't put ds back into pullups because I believed that it would be a) a backwards step and b) he'd get used to pooing/peeing whenever he liked and never get used to the toilet. I can't say if that would have been the case.

I did quite a bit of talking to ds about how our food turns into poo, and the whole poos like going into the toilet and joining all their poo friends (I'd have said anything quite frankly). I genuinely think though that in our case it was time that worked. Whether time and pullups would have worked as well I just can't say.

It seems to me that there's a range of "normal" for potty training like everything else. Some are dry at 18 months, most are dry by 2.5, some are still to crack it at 4.

"If there is a medical problem then he needs help, but no other poster or the OP seem to think that this is the case - the child's not 4 years old yet and with the trend for very late toilet training I would imagine the OP is not the only person who has been in this situation."

Only a RL medical professional can work out if its a medical problem or if there are any other developmental difficulties. For example children with dyspraxia sometimes find potty training harder.

The OP seems very frustrated otherwise she wouldn't be posting. Surestart and health vistors are there to help. There are lots of strageries for potty training and what works for one child will not work for every child.

OP - my sympathies, DS1 was very nearly 4 when we finally cracked it.

Things that worked for us (but may not for you):

• a choc button for not just the successes, but also the non-accidents.

(e.g. walk to that corner without an accident, have a button, walk all the way home, a choc button. Sit through lunch, a choc button. I went for more is more on the choc button approach )

• a timer set at every 20mins for first few days, he had to sit on potette when the timer went off (or toilet, his choice, but potette was in front of tv!)

• a potette as the potties were all too small to be comfy by his age, the potette also v handy for out and about

• massive reward charts/reward chosen by him (cost us lots and we gained lots of plastic tat, lol)

• using toilet more than potette as he was becoming a 'big boy'

• lastly, singing. we made up songs for successes on the toilet - they are still requested now many months later!!

(e.g. 'he did it, he did it, he did it in the toilet' = Dora the Explorer end of programme tune 'hip hip hooray, he did it in the toilet today, he felt it coming, he ran here, then he did it, so we gave him a cheer' = programme name escapes me, about books, bookclub, wyatt....)

Good luck :)

You're not alone!
My DD is four next month and won't even consider going without nappies or using a potty. So much as mention a toilet and the panic sets in, eyes fill up etc.
Apparently (I was at work) DH got her to do a tiny poo on the potty about 2 years ago and thats as far as it got. I tried the cold turkey thing a couple of months ago and she refused to both put knickers on (I got kicked in the ribs!) or leave her bedroom, just squirmed around on her bed crying for about three hours until I gave in.
The most frustrating thing is that she has full control - all the time she had no nappy on she never wee'd, as soon as I put her in one she did! First thing in the morning she's pretty much dry then it all comes flooding out.
Utterly at a loss. I've done everything suggested by everyone. DH thinks I've put the fear into her by always cleaning - including the toilet!
How do you do 'cold turkey' when they're scared of potties/toilets?

DS1 was just over four when he decided he didn't want nappies anymore.

Training I did was just offering the potty around the house and talking about it.
Had been given quite a few books too so we read lots of those.
He was a lot later than lots of his peers, but as he didn't go to nursery it wasn't an issue.

.....I hadn't finished.

I was a bit worried that he wouldn't be ready by Sept. You've got a long time and I'm sure he will be by then.

Ds told me he wanted to be out of nappies in June and then did it in a week with just one or two poo incidents. Was dry at night also.

My colleague said she couldn't believe how relaxed we were about it and that must have helped him (although he feared and still fears poo - totally normal fear I'd say!!!)

Please try not to worry too much. According to everyone else - whom I ignored - we potty trained very late. Good luck.

At nearly 4 cut the potty and go straight to toilet. Presumably he sees you using the toilet? if you live with his dad get his Dad to take him and do 'men weeing'.
Make a big issue of buying some nice 'grown up pants' with favourite ogo, a ceremony of chucking out nappies - he's a big boy now! - and go cold turkey: "this is what we do now".

Unless you think there may be any reason why he is not physically ready.

skip the potty go to the toilet, he is 4 yo.
Say something along the 'you are a big boy' and there is no more nappy for your size, here are your new pants...
go cold turkey.

unless you think there is an underlying medical condition, then go to your GP.

oops slow typing! or what blu said

I really sympathise.

Ds is in pants but only because I have tried so many times I just got to the point that I couldn't bring myself to go back to full time nappies. He will be 4 this month but it is still very, very rare that he tells me he needs to go. WE have to watch him, to remember when he last went, see the early signs then persuade him somehow to go. A lot of people are saying go with toilet but I'd say go with whatever he likes best. If I tell ds to go to the loo he will kick and scream and dig his heels in and refuse point blank to go (then wet himself a min later). If I just give him a choice of where to wee then he will usually choose potty or toilet and go do his wee. He dribbles a lot, especially of ocurse when getting desperate but still not realising he needs to go. I'm hoping this goes by the time he starts school as I really don't want him to be teased for the aroma of stale urine that follows him around (and yes I do change his pants and trousers as soon as I have realised he has dribbled but sometimes he dribbles in such tiny amounts it dries quickly and I don't spot it until he smells)

Thanks ladies.

It is not really possible for me to do a whole week at home for this. Firstly he goes to nursery 3 hours a day, secondly I work two days a week.

I started on Sunday and they only started back at school and nursery today so we had three days at home.

The chocolate bribe doesn't work on him. Neither does presents. We have one that works which is that if he tries hard and does lots of wees on the potty he can play the Toy Story game on the PS3 before bed for an hour. But at his age it is difficult for him to understand that he will get his reward at the end of the day not when he actually does the wee which is a struggle.

Took him to nursery this morning. He was sat on the potty before we left. Got him dressed and straight into the car and he wet himself during the 5 min journey. At nursery I changed him and showed him the loo and told him he needs to do his wees and poos in the toilet as he is a big boy now, no nappies blah blah blah. Said if he tried hard and did his wees in the loo he can play the Toy Story game tonight. He smiled said yes he understands etc.

I don't think he is resistant to the training now I just don't think he knows the sensation of needing to go yet. Although saying that about a year ago he suddenly went off to the potty on his own and did a wee when we we weren't even training! So he must know! And yes I should have jumped on that opportunity more than I did, I know....

I could pay to leave him at nursery all week but to be honest I don't think they are on the ball there. They have 4 staff and 40 kids of 4-5 years old. Not happy with the situation but that is another matter! It will just get missed time after time as they are so busy.

Maybe I should take him out of nursery for a week to do it properly?

Thanks indith, yes DS also seems to do little dribbles rather that emptying his full bladder and I have to keep saying sit back down and get it all out. Not sure if he knows what I mean though.

On reading your further responses, I think you should visit to the GP to rule out any underlying cause, then take 2 days off work and take him out of nursery for a week to sort this out. If he could recognise the sensation of needing the loo a year ago then you just need to trigger that recognition again. And don't get hung up on rewarding with 'stuff' if he's not interested - I just used lots of praise and was successful with both children in a pretty short time.