DS (4.2) still has accidents every day - I have no idea what to do any more

[iwouldgoouttonight]

I really have no clue what approach to take any more! We started potty training nearly two years ago when he was asking if he could wear pants. Since then he can occasionally go for a whole day with no accidents, and can sometimes either ask to go to the toilet or just go by himself. But more often than not we have to remind him to go.

But he often just refuses to go. He can be sitting there wriggling his legs and clearly needing a wee but he is adamant he doesn't. If we take him to the toilet he will stand there holding his willy but nothing comes out, then ten minutes later he will wet himself on the sofa.

The other day we were trying to persuade him to try for a poo. He sat on the toilet for a while, and said he didn't need one. Then he refused to put his trousers back on again so we left him bare-bottomed. A few minutes later DP noticed a poo coming out, just about to land on the living room carpet!!

We have tried reward charts, loads of praise for using the toilet, ignoring it, getting him to change himself after an accident, etc and I have no clue what is the best thing to do any more.

When we pick him up from school he has normally has a poo accident and he often smells of wee. As does our sofa

Sometimes I think he is being deliberately naughty and maybe we should tell him off/naughty corner/tell him he can't watch TV later or something. But then I wonder whether there is some other issue and we should be more gentle with him. We've been to the doctor and he's had tests which show there isn't a physical problem.

Should we be harder on him? Softer on him? Ignore it? Make more of a deal of it? Any ideas???

I feel your pain

DD (4.5) still has an accident most days too (thankfully only wee). At the moment she is mostly just leaking a bit where she leaves it too late to go to the toilet, but from experience I have no doubt we will soon go through yet another stage of full wees several times a day.

Yet I can count on one hand the amount of times ds (2.11) has had wet pants

My DS is 3.9 and the same so I will watch this thread with interest. I havent really bothered with potty training this far as he clearly isn't ready. However the closer we get to starting school the more concerned I get as he shows no willing at all to get out of nappies!

we had a period of regression with ds1, tho not as bad as yours

i eventually solved it by basically ignoring it.
it's SO hard not to say something when you see them wriggling around and obviously needing the toilet tho.

i just said to him "ds1. wees and poos MUST go in the toilet. it is NOT ok to do it in your pants.
you don't like it when i keep asking you to go, so i am going to stop and i trust you to take yourself when you are ready. if you wee or poo in your pants you will change yourself and clear up the mess"

and then i did nothing bar a reminder now and then that "remember you're in charge of goign to the toilet now" or "no-one is in the toilet if you need to use it"

but i stopped asking him to go, stopped reminding him, stopped taking him

we had a few accidents but it really wasn't that long before he realised his limitations and started going by himself

I feel your pain. DS1 is having loads of toilet accidents (poo, never wee accidents) currently. He's 4.7 and supposed to be at school (as for why he's currently not, that's another story entirely :()

Oh, I should add, DS quite often has accidents when engrossed in a game on computer or on DH's phone, so the incentive right now is that he has to have had clean pants all day to be allowed to play on his dad's phone when he gets home from work. I'm so sick of the mess but I know I need to bite my tongue and just try to ignore...

We have a 3.8 yo DD here who is the same- we thought she had got it, and she has regressed :(

I don't know what to do- I've tried everything, I did think maybe she was being naughty, but then she was really upset the other night and said "I feel really sorry for the teachers at nursery because they always have to change me when I wet myself" :(

She also quite often says "I'm not a big girl any more, I keep forgetting to catch my wees and poos in the toilet" and seems very upset.

I have tired making her change herself, but she seems to think that getting changed is great fun so I'm not sure that giving her an excuse to indulge her hobby of dressing up is a good idea.

Thisisyesterday - when you stopped asking your DS to go to the toilet how did he actually clean up the mess? I don't think I could leave DS to clean up wee or poo from the sofa or carpet.

We do try to get him to clean and change himself, which sometimes works. But sometimes he will be sitting on the sofa playing and we eventually realise he's done a wee, but he won't get up and go to the toilet to clean himself up. He gets upset and says he wants us to carry him! So we can either just leave him there and leave the wee absorbing into the sofa, or keep on at him to go and change and risk it turning into a huge big deal where he refuses to do anything.

Its like a control thing - a way of him having some control over what is happening.

What type of sofa, Iwould? i.e. washable covers, dry clean only, leather, foam inner cushions, feather? I can suggest a protective measure meanwhile: get a cheap plastic shower curtain (2 x 2 m should do for 3 seater and 2 chairs.) Cut in half. Use one half on the sofa over the seat cushions. Put a cheap throw or fleece blanket over it to cover, strip off and wash when necessary. Cut the remaining curtain piece to fit chair seat cushions and also put a throw over.

most of the time he was quite good actually. it was mainly wee accidents which i guess made it easier
but i would jsut say "ds1, here is a cloth, please use it to clean up" and i would help him if he needed some help. partly because i needed it done properly and partly because i want him to learn that when we are in a position to help people out we should.

in his case it was definitely a control issue, so once all the control was passed to him he actually got on and did it really well.

if he did refuse i would just pick him up and take him to get changed, and just really jolly him along a lot. lots of "come on then ds, let's get some clean clothes, let's find a cloth then we can carry on with what you were doing"

DD has been potty trained (day and night) since she was 2 years and 5 months. We have had accidents but they were because she 'was too busy' to go to the toilet. So when we see her wriggling we simply put her on the loo and she stays there for a significant time (up to 20 minutes, if nothing comes). This seems to have worked, she now just gets on with it. At school the staff take the whole class to the toilet at set times, and they all have to go on the loo and try. The staff said that it is the only thing that works as the kids are 'too busy to remember to go in time'. I have only heard of one accident since school started and they have 75 kids! So my advice would be when you think he needs to go put him on the loo and leave him there for a significant time until he gets the hang of it, he will be angry alright (at least my dd was) but they have to learn that it is important to go! alternatively, go the incentive route for every wee or poo on the loo a small present/sweet. I hope you can get it sorted soon. Good luck.

DS is 4.4 and we have the same problem - jiggling about, swears he doesn't need to go etc etc.

We have tried change yourself, reward charts but school just doesn't seem to 'work' for him.

Over half term we had 9 days straight with no accidents - then first day back and every day since - home in his plimsolls as everything has been wet/soiled.

He asks to not wear pull ups at night but we have said no until he is dry/clean in the day.

Is this the right thing to do?

Just to say that there can be a physical problem with kids (particularly boys) who have poo accidents. If you do a search for Movicol on here you will find threads discussing the most common treatment. It happens to be a laxative which I know is completely counter-intuitive. But as it has been explained to me, the problem occurs when the bowel stretches because of impacted poo inside, and other poo leaks out around it. So the accidents are the spill over and often the child can't feel the normal sensations or get the normal warnings for a poo, and this might explain why they don't react the way you expect them to.

Our ds has just turned 6 and we are still working on it. Once there is impacted poo and a stretched bowel these problems take longer than you might ever imagine to get resolved. I'm not sure if it also effects the wee-ing sensations but it might be worth finding out.

It could be worth getting him a cheap digital watch that has an alarm on the hour. When he hears the alarm he must go and try. Boys often enjoy aiming at something like a ping pong ball in the toilet to make it more fun. You can buy washable absorbant seat pads for the sofa in those catalogues that come w the sunday paper or nottingham rehab.

Thanks for all your comments - its good to know we're not alone! We have tried leaving him on the toilet for ages but he seems to be so stubborn about it he can hold it in (wish my bladder was that strong!) and he now seems to get on better standing up.

Half the time the difficulty seems to be getting him to the toilet in the first place. His teachers say he is stubborn, and I think they're right. It can also be quite difficult to get him to school in the mornings because he will refuse to go the the toilet or brush his teeth before he goes. So we will try things like no TV after school if you don't get ready for school, treats if he gets ready quickly, naughty corner if he continues to refuse to go to the toilet but he doesn't seem to respond to any of them. This morning DP had to actually carry him to school because no amount of jollying him along worked.

I wonder if there are any other ways of coaxing a stubborn child into doing things?

There must be something he really wants ... so the key is finding out what that is and that will be the incentive to use. Could be a toy, a club, an activity with you or DP, there must be something

This is our life! Our 4yr DD still has accidents every day... several. She nailed it for a couple of months and then we went on holiday and now they are back. The only thing that seems to work is totally ignoring it (i.e. no reaction). Which is hard work when she wees on the sofa. I think she is kinda 'lazy' is having too much fun and can't be bothered going to the toilet. we are very frustrated though!

Our 4yo DD just the same. Wriggling while sitting on the floor, will refuse to go if I suggest it. Has lots of mini accidents where pants are a bit wet then finishes off on the toilet. She always smells of wee and it has pushed me to the edge as I can't understand it DD1 potty trained at 2.5 with no problems at all.

I am practicing the ignore school of thought mostly, if I notice wet pants just say please change your pants and turn back and say nothing more about it. Still praising for successess but have stopped all charts/treats/promises etc as nothing really seemed to work. IMO a kiss and cuddle and 'well done' is more meaningful to them than a toy/treat.

DD is quite the manipulator so I have found that ignoring has improved things a lot, I do think she was hoping for a big reaction from me as I was rushing her to the loo at the first sign of wiggling etc, sometimes she is shouting in the loo 'can't get my pants off' or 'can't get on the loo' (all a load of rubbish, she can do both) I now ignore all and just praise for success.

Really hope we will get there in the end and specifically before September next year and the start of school!