15 months and counting - please, please support me?

[LaTourEiffel]

Hi, DS1 is now 3.7 and we've been potty training now for a VERY long time. We started when he was about 2.5 as he was showing signs of readiness, he was at pre-school where his peers were also learning.

It had slow beginnings but we were getting somewhere, with most wees being done on the toilet or in the potty.

In October, DS2 arrived.

Since then we've been going no-where.

We've done sticker charts, rewards, not reacting, gentle reactions (that's not nice, we don't do that), involving him in clearing up (he likes doing jobs), reading books, singing songs, naked bums, called it all off for a few weeks....

I'm so, so, so, sick of people looking at me like I'm doing something wrong.

I can't take him to 'friends' houses any more because he has accidents there and its very awkward - no-one actually says anything, but they don't really need to.

Where the hell do I go from here?

HV's are convinced that he's got constipation, but I'm not convinced at all. He goes every day, sometimes twice a day. Bowel movements are quite often loose, but I was told recently that he was having too much milk in his diet and not enough carbs, so we've been trying to address that and some of his poos have been firmer.

I just can't take anymore and its obviously affecting him too.

Anyone?

Hiya,
You already know a bit about our story. 13 months and counting! There's two main things that have been keeping me going. One is he very rarely has poo accidents, only if he's very ill. The other thing is, every time things regress it takes a little less time to get back on the right road, and a little more time before we regress again. It gives me hope that eventually we'll have no regressions!

Someone suggested to me leaving him to it, but putting a basket of clean pants beside the potty so he could change himself when he was wet. It puts all the responsibility on him, and means less stress for you. That way if he's wet or dirty he learns how much effort it is to clean up, and that you can get sore (we had very sore legs for a while from leaks but I didn't want to go back to pantless)
I also told him every morning "Going to the toilet is up to you. I'm not going to nag, I'm not going to send you if you're wet. If you get sore, it's your problem" Or words to that effect anyway. And then I did just leave him to it. If he had wet pants for half the day then so be it. After a few days, when he leaked he came to me to ask for clean pants (he wasn't able to change them himself yet) and gradually the leaks got smaller, and now they're becoming non existant unless he's really busy.

Have you been to the GP to get him tested for a uti? It was one of the first things our HV suggested (test came back negative but oh well!) I found the HV useless for suggesting things we hadn't tried, but she really did help put things back into perspective for us. Where we thought we were going right back to square 1 each time, she helped us see that he was actually improving each time and that even tiny changes in their/your lives can affect precarious potty training. So when great grandad passed on you can imagine how that affected potty training!

I'm afraid I can't help you with your friends though. Just remind them that not all children potty train in a week, and boys especially can be a pain! Just because their dc happened to spontaneously potty train on their second birthday doesn't mean all children are like that. It also doesn't mean that you are doing anything wrong, or that there is anything wrong with your ds! I'm a professional nanny so I'm supposed to know what I'm doing and it's still taken me over a year to potty train my own child

Thanks for posting Tarenath, its good to know that I'm not on my own and that at least someone out there is experiencing similar. I think I've really beaten myself up about this (and probably still am) as I feel like it must be my fault somewhere along the line.

Recently he has been stripping his wet clothes off by himself and then going upstairs to get some clean pants and put them on. He can't get clean trousers / shorts without help but quite often, he just runs around without them after he's wet them - at least it saves on the washing! Thinking about it, I don't know why I bother putting them on him in the morning.

My HV came out to have a chat for 'potty training support' and gave me absolutely no advice whatsoever. I went to clinic the other day and burst into tears at the nursery nurse in front of all the other mums. She's convinced he's got an impaction (is that the right word?) and to get him seen by the doctor.

My gut instinct says this isn't the case, but of course, I'll be getting him checked anyway. My preferred doctor is on holiday this week (she's a mum too) so am going to wait till she's back and then go see her.

I was thinking about going without him, as he doesn't like me talking about him, especially about toileting - understandably too. (I don't talk about in front of him per se, but have handovers from pre-school and its obvious that he doesn't like it when we have to discuss what accidents have been done - we try to do it out of his earshot)

I can't quite get my head round the environments,

home - daily poo accidents,
pre-school - occasional poo accidents
car - rare wee accidents
other peoples houses - wee and poo accidents

Although, he does protest very loudly if I tell him to try, and tells me he doesn't need one (nearly to the point of tantrum), and then either gives in and does one on the potty / toilet or will have an accident 2 seconds after protesting he doesn't need it.

He went two whole weeks without any accidents back in March, so I KNOW he can do it.

Hello, it is exhausting isn't it? There is a strange psychology going on which I don't understand. My DD, 3.8, can get herself to the loo for a wee, but has abandoned all pretence of doing a poo in the loo, will not even respond to rewards and gets very upset. The fact that she does get so upset is starting to make me think that whatever it is is very real to her. She screamed yesterday, 'My bottom's not working!' I don't know what she means, especially as she hold the poo in and then does it all in her nappy at bed time. I did think this was better (it is better from the washing point of view) but it does extend bed-time and so I have tried to encourage her go in the day, but a terrible tantrum ensues. I too am so sick of pooey clothes - it makes me feel ill and I feel convinced it is going on too long. But whatever is going on in her head about this is genuine. Her distress is real and so I guess I just don't fight it and wait for it to pass...?

Have you seen the "Poo goes to Pooland" link on another post? Wonder if that might help anxiety?

really truly I would give yourselves a break for a few months because I think there are probably behaviour and toileting issues that have crossed over.

Spend a few months rebuilding your relationship again with lots of positiveness.

Hope that makes sense.

My DS took a while to crack it too. Almost a year from our first attempt to being dry at 3.5. I just gave up after each disaster though, he wasn't ready so I wasn't going to push the matter. We kept going back to pull ups and trying the next month. In fact, it wasn't until he was potty trained for about a month that I ventured out of the house without nappy pants, he hadn't pee-d in them for weeks but I wasn't in the mood for wet trousers when we were out.

Can you just abort the whole idea for a couple of weeks (make life easier, and cleaner, for yourself for a while), go back to the feel 'n' learn nappies and see how he goes with them. He might not like them and give him a spur to start using the potty.

And I have occasionally bribed him with a white choc button in front of cbeebies to get him to do a poo.

Hope it works out ok in time.

I just wonder if subconsciously it's become a protest vote/attention seeking thing due to new baby arrival. Perhaps he isn't ready to be a big boy?

Hence give yourselves a break from it for 2 or 3 months.

www.scribd.com/doc/28743654/Poo-Goes-to-Pooland-1-1

I have no experience of any of this yet, just doing my reading before we start the whole potty training nightmare tomorrow!

My ds regressed in a number of ways when his brother arrived, his sleep went terrible and he was constantly demanding milk etc. He was only 2.5 so we hadn't attempted potty training then, and left it a good few months before we did try. He told me several times when we did suggest going into pants that he didn't want to, and he wanted to be a baby. He still doesn't like it if I tell him he is a big boy, for any reason. It's a massive upheaval having a new sibling, even if on the surface they seem fine. I would also give yourselves a break from it perhaps and try again later.

No advice, but you aren't alone.

DD first wanted to wear knickers aged 20 months and got it very quickly, then lost interest and started having wee accidents. She is now 4.3 and still has accidents most days, sometimes several a day.

DS is 2.7 and has toilet trained himself with hardly any accidents.

At least that has reassured me that it isn't my fault and is nothing I have done wrong...

Freakoid, at the moment I have a strong feeling that DS2 (currently 9 months) will be trained before DS1 at the current rate! He cries when he's got a dirty nappy, which DS1 never did.

We've had a 'good' few days now, with mostly no wee accidents, just poo accidents. Once again, they've been runny poo's so am taking him to see the GP on monday to see if he's got an impaction or not.

When he has an accident, his behaviour gets quite bad, spitting and throwing toys, which is totally not what he's normally like. We'd been telling him off for it, but since we've realised that its only around accident time we've changed that completely.

We've tried going back to pull-ups, but he simply doesn't want to. He's totally leading the way on it at the moment.

I saw the poo goes to pooland link and read it to him / showed him the pictures etc. He was quite fascinated and asked questions about where pooland was etc, so I explained as best I could. I've previously told him that his poo wants to go swimming with the mummy's and daddy's poos so it all ties together well.

Well tbh I'm quite a tough mum and I'd tell him he either has to keep his pants dry or he has to wear nappies. The fact he wants to wear pants is good but how much does he want it?

I told dd2 if she wanted to stay at pre-school then she had to have dry pants! The accidents stopped overnight! All 4 of mine have had different potty training experiences but if I was experiencing what you are I would insist on nappies again if no improvement after issuing the ultimatum.

Worth a try?

We've not tried 'feel-n-learn' nappies, only pull-ups so that could be an option.

Hi, we're also at month 15! My DS is 3 years 11 months and starts school in September and still has at least one accident (wee or poo) every day. We saw the doctor last week for urine tests and are just waiting for the results, but the doctor said as its both wee and poo accidents its unlikely he has an infection or any physical problems and more likely to be psychological.

We too have tried all the reward charts, bribery, praising good behaviour, etc but DS does seem to actually want to be toilet trained. Last night he sat on the sofa, wet himself and just said, oh its like a pond on there. And then just carried on what he was doing! He also can build himself up into a tantrum if we see him jiggling about, quite clearly needing a wee, and ask him to go to the toilet. He'll just shout 'I don't need a wee' over and over and we either carry him to the potty and he'll do a wee almost immediately or we'll leave him and he'll wet himself.

I still visit friends - they haven't said anything to me about it and I make sure he doesn't sit on their sofas! But I am getting fed up with our sofa smelling of wee! And worried about how he'll be at school. He has accidents at nursery even though he sees other children using the toilet. He had said quite matter of factly, so and so uses the toilet, I sometimes wee in my pants.

We did go through a stage of being more strict about it and telling him it was wrong to wee in your pants and we didn't like it, but that seemed to make him worse and I feel bad that we might have made it into more on an issue for him. I just sometimes got to the end of my tether after yet another accident and the thought of more cleaning up and washing and got cross with him. I know that isn't the right way about it and we're trying to be more patient now and staying calm and just changing him and not saying much at all.

I don't really have any advice just that you're not the only one! I'll keep watching this thread in case anyone else had a miracle answer!

Hi again,

iwouldgoouttonight, thanks for posting. Its very good (ykwim, I hope) to know there are other people with kids taking so long to train. I see posts on this board from people who have been trying for a month and wondering what they're doing wrong and feel like I'm in some kind of time warp!

Just got back from the doctors, she's felt his tummy and said she's confident that there's no blockage, which is as I suspected.

She's going to give me a referral to a paediatrician, which she said was more for me than DS, to try and help me cope by transferring some of the responsibility away from me.

I'm also starting work next week and DS will be going to nursery nearly full time so I'll get some distance from it all.

We've had a good day today, in that he's consistently taken himself to the toilet for wee's or asked to go (at the doctors!) which is quite a breakthrough. I say breakthrough, but actually, it just puts us back to about where we were this time last year .

Just noticed all the typos in my last message! I meant to say DS doesn't seem to actually want to be toilet trained (not does!).

Hopefully seeing the paediatrician might help you. The doctor said to me a lot of it might be because I am getting so anxious about it and to stop worrying but that's easier said than done. When I collect him from nursery I can feel myself tensing up when I go into his room and see the carrier bags full of wet clothes on his peg. I really try not to let him see I'm bothered but he must pick up on it.

Its so difficult to not let it become an issue when its been going on for so long!! I remember the first day we started to potty train him, he did six wees in the potty and only had one accident - I remember thinking how easy it was going to be. Hmmm.

I'm sure having 18 month old DD doesn't help us - there is definitely some competing for attention going on. I'm sure she will be potty trained before him - she already reverses up to me when she's done a poo so I can check the back of her nappy!

iwouldgoout - lol at your DD! I know what you mean about the 'peg approach'. Sometimes I do have days when there aren't any bags of wet clothes however, sometimes they are hidden inside his bag , and sometimes they are on the wrong peg .

I've also taken someone else's pooey pants home before know and washed and returned them! God knows what the inside of my washing machine is full of .

DS2 (9 months) moans at me when he's done a poo, which is a big contrast to DS1 as he never cared at all - he's only just telling me now.

I just don't understand why he would use this for attention when there are so many other things he could do, that would probably be equally as effective at getting attention...

It would be nice to go out to friends houses without having to worry about wee and poo incidents.

I can totally sympathise, I just came on this forum to see if I can get the same advice! My son is 3.2 and potty training for 9 months, Wee's is fine, he will tell us and go in the potty 8 times out of 10. but Poo's is a completely different matter! He will hold it in as long as he can, consequently he 'skids' his pants sometimes as many as 8 times a day! just letting out a small amount at a time - when all he needs is a big poo! He refuses to sit on the potty and gets himself into a right state when we try to get him on it for a poo - he will cry and wail the whole time. he won't even talk about it, if you mention poo he says 'don't want to talk'. I am sick to death of cleaning it up every day, I can't get the stink of s**t out of my fingernails, and I find myself getting really cross with him which them makes me feel bad.

I have tried all things bribery, star charts etc - nothing has worked. He seems to have a complete phobia of pooing.

Hi kateclower - no solutions from me I'm afraid, just sympathy.

Did you try pull-ups and have you read books? I read DS 'poo goes to poo-land' the other day which I found from a link on here, her found it quite interesting and has invoked quite a bit of conversation about poo over the last few days.

Sorry, pretty lame huh - I guess you must have tried all these.

I've been quite unfair today, as I should have recognised that he hasn't had any wee accidents at all today. He responded positively when having a look round his new nursery today, I saw him do 'the willy clutch' and asked him if he needed the toilet - he said yes, quite happily. I was shocked to say the least (but pleased, obviously).

He also asked to go when we were at the doctors so I'm very pleased with progress.

Just need to get that damned poo and hope that today wasn't a one off.

Poor DS2, he'll be mortified if I ever tell him I kept a running commentary on his bowel movements

DS2 is definitely with holding the poo, he hasn't been for days and days (it just 'leaks' out - sorry Tmi!)I'm not at home on Tuesdays and Weds and our nanny has put him back in nappies as she can't deal with it! I don't blame her, but is this just setting him back even further?

I am going to take him to the Doctors if he hasn't gone by the end of tomorrow. Will let you know if she has any solutions!

It's not your fault and you are not alone.

My DD is now 5.6 and is still not dry durring the day and also has poo acccidents. I have constantly been told by various gp's, HV's and school nurses that this was due to behaviour.

My DD was finally referd to the hospital a few months ago after she had had 3 utis in 2 months at her first appointment she was diagnosed with constipation and an overactive bladder the uti's were caused by her dirty knickers when she had pood herself. She is now on 3 medicines although there has been some improvent she is still having accidents sometimes upto 4 times aday.

Like you i have had variuos comments from friends 1 friend even told me that she would beat her child if he was still wetting himself at her age.

I hope for you that your hospital appointment gives you some answers i know for me it felt like a huge weight had been lifted that someone actually thought there was a problem.

Just wanted to let you know your not alone.

Still here.

Still toilet training.

LaTourEiffel, ds1 was like your ds. We were training him for well over a year and at your ds's age he had constant poo accidents.

People telling you to take a tough stance is very unhelpful as you know. We found the opposite.

I had very little help with this from HCPs and the implication from other people tends to be that it is all your fault.

The first thing we did was to use a stool softener with ds1. I had a hunch that at some stage he had been constipated and the poo hurt him so I used the softener to make absolutely sure that it would never hurt. I also kept an eagle eye out for signs that he needed to poo and put him straight on the potty. Because of the stool softener, he couldn't hold it in very easily so this acclimatised him to pooing in the right place.

Then we totally chilled. If he poo-ed in his pants, we very casually just changed him. Dh found this particularly difficult as he believed ds1 was doing this to wind us up but I insisted he stay calm.

One day, he just did it. We praised him up to the skies and he kept doing it.

He is 14 now and has not had an accident over 10 years!

He would also not be please if he knew I was discussing this!

Chin up! He will get there!

thanks chipmonkey - lol at your DS knowing you're discussing him.

He does sometimes realise he needs to go 'i need a poo' he yells, and off he goes. He always gets praised and rewarded, never told off, no sighing, lots of encouragement wherever possible.

Other times he says he has tummy cramps, and we go to the loo sharpish and we catch them. His main problem is that his poo is often very loose - normally just one off the bottom of the bristol scale - so he doesn't have time to learn what it feels like to go the loo normally.

We're waiting for a fat intolerance and lactose intolerance test to come back, but I strongly suspect that it will be negative.