Sept 08: They're under starters orders .... and they're off .... well, some of them!

[ILikeToMoveItMoveIt]

I thought I'd use this title as not all of our delicious babies are on the move yet, including mine

I have just put more photos on

Potxola they are such beautiful, smily kids! Of course you are super proud. How could you not be?

they are funny things, families, aren't they? That's why sometimes it suits one to be in a different country...

I feel terrible!!! You know how yesterday I was saying that Diego sits up in his cot at nap times and screams until I go and lie him down? Well, today we started the same routine, only after the second time the screaming stopped really quickly. I waited a bit and then went to check and the poor little mite was falling asleep sitting up. I left him for at least 5 minutes with his head bobbing up and down, wanting to fall asleep.

Will he learn to lie back down as proficiently as he sits up?

Rereading this, it sounds like I left him up after I went in. Can i reassure you that I didn't - he HAD been falling asleep sitting for 5 mins when I walked in. Doh.

potxola they are gorgeous!! They're very lucky to have a mum like you.

pacita Diego sounds very determined to sit up! DS insists on standing in his cot when he wakes, he has never ever sat back down or lay down on his own.

Am also concerned about Swine Flu. DS was due to start going to nursery two days a week in September, but they still don't have a spare place for him and I can't say I'm particularly eager to get him in there. Doesn't seem to make sense seeing as I don't have a job. He was put on the waiting list when I thought I'd be going back to my old job. But I don't even have any freelance work lined up for September so it seems a bit pointless to put him at risk right now.

digi - I have to check myself and keep the whole swine flu thing in perspective, however if I didn't have to put ds into childcare then I wouldn't. It's a risk wherever you go, but if I can avoid it then I will.

With the Autumn and Winter seasons coming up it has also reinforced my thoughts about carrying on bf'ing M. If I can help him through the cough and cold season, then that's a good thing.

I am still having a bit of a cringe over the whole foul/foal thing

Pacita & Digital girl Thaks. I am visiting family in August (8 days is more than enough)and expect lots of compliments from friends Nobody there has met Lorea yet.
I never thought I was going to enjoy so much buying dresses for her.
Pacita, what do you think about having a baby girl in this country and having her wearing small earings? For the others, that is a custom in Spain.
Well I am not doing it. Some stupid friends of my mum have seen photos of Lorea and said she looks like a boy because she does not have earings!!!!!!!!!!!! By the way my mum wants me to go to a pharmacy in Spain and have her ears pierced.
IN HER DREAMS!!!!!!!!
My son used to fall asleep like that too , it did not matter he was in a Grobag. It is only a phase pacita
I did not take my son to the last 2 weeks of nursery because of some cases of swine flue

pacita don't feel bad, sounds quite cute! There's nothing wrong with sleeping sitting up, dh does it all the time

potxola your children are beautiful and look so happy.

I saw a girl in the park the other week who was about 2 and had those huge gold hoop earrings in, she was also being 'looked after' by a teenage girl who was drinking alchopops in the park! Made me cringe.

We went to a family open day at dh's work today. DS2 went on the bouncy castle and loved it. He also loved the farm animals they had there. He growls at any animal or picture of animal that he sees, very cute.
The other thing he laughed a lot at was going on dh's shoulders, he found that hilarious.

Potxola, ah, the ear piercing debate. I have not had any of that because Diego is a boy, but I think I'd just laugh it off. If she wants her ears pierced she can have it done when she's older.

I remember that my parents (who were the hippies in the family) did not pierce my ears, so my aunt took me to have then pierced when I was nine. Looking back it was a bizarre experience. The procedure was carried out by the nuns in a convent, who put a piece of raw potato behind my ear, and pierced me with a huge needle. You could tell they did not do it very often, and the old nun doing it had shaky hands. I can remember it to this day. Then they applied alcohol to disinfect - it stung so much! At the end of the procedure my aunt produced a box with tiny gold and pearl earrings which had to go in (and stay in) until my earlobes healed, so that the piercing wouldn't close. The funny thing is, I never even remember to put on earrings these days, although I was dead proud of my pearls back then. I guess it's a cultural thing. It just feels so remote now.

So yes, I think you are right to let Lorea make her mind up when she grows older.

Everyone in Spain will adore her, she's such a cutie.

Diego still has a cough. I can't help fretting although he's eating well and has no temperature... How are the rest of the coughing LOs doing?

potxola Your LOs are beautiful! I can sympathise on the parent problems. (I could have a whole thread about the problems with my mother.) Also I should say that you are my inspiration for trying to have 2 LOs. You once posted that you achieved your goal of having had 2 LOs by the age of 41. Since then that has been MY goal too! DD was born 6 days before my 40th birthday. If I want a second by 41 I have to conceive by Christmas. I don't know if it can be done, as I am not fully recovered from the SPD yet, and it took us well over a year to conceive DD... but I can hope!

ILTMIMI There is no need to cringe about the foal/foul thing! It was a clever (if accidental) joke on DD's activities.

pacita I was also taken by my aunt to have my ears pierced! But I was 15 so probably OK.

Aaaargh! Still obsessing over the moving house question. We looked at another house yesterday with a huge walled garden. After much debate DH and I decided last night that we have made a decision to stay here, despite not having a garden, just a large courtyard. So I spent today digging 12 sq m of gravel with a snow shovel and a hoe, to see whether it is possible to put down some lawn. Very satisfying, but strange nesting instinct reaction!

Where is carriebo? How is your house selling going?

Ponymum Ohhhhhh. Please believe it is going to happen. We are not old, only older that most of the other mums . Believe you can do it. Visualize yourself with both of them, it does not matter the sex of the next one. Just picture yourself as a mum of 2. That is what I did and it was not the right time to get pregnant, but it was then or never.

Pacita Just like in a scene of one of those Spanish films (espan-oladas). In a convent with a potato and alcohol! That is funny. I just told my dh and he loved the story
Don't worry, Lorea has had a cold for about a week and still has runny nose and sometimes gets really hot. On tuesday we had an appointment with the pediatra in the hospital about what I thought was a lump near her ribs (it is nothing serious,it is not the bone)and I asked her about the cough and runny nose. She sais it was just a cold and I should just give her Calpol to make her more comfortable.

Starlight Always asking the right things. You are a wise woman. I would have to meet you one day.
"Is she keen to have a relationship?" No, she won't be there . She is on her 70s. At the moment she is worried about the fact that she has to move her exercise bike and everything else from the room where my son will be staying into hers. They live in flats, normal in Spain, they have 3 bedrooms, but obviously things will need to be move for us to stay there!! Those comments are said in a funny way, but I know she sort of dislikes the fact that her life is going to be disturbed for 8 days.
They are generous to my kids in other ways, they just don't know how to deal with being grandparents.
The fact they have not met Lorea yet will give me I guess the first 3 days free of criticism. Because of heath problems they won't come here,so it is up to us to go and spend with them our holiday time.

Where is jearound?
And mamamuffin?

Anyone fancy giving me a virtual slap? I feel so awful for feeling this way, but I'm incredibly envious of my friend for having a trouble free labour. The awful aftermath of mine (3rd degree tear, in absolute agony for weeks/months, various minor complications) completely ruined the newborn stage for me, and all I remember from the first weeks is a constant round of crying/being in pain/T crying/exhaustion beyond all imagination/not being able to take T for walks in the pram. You know.

My friend is clearly loving the first few days, back home already, BFing going well, no tear, all happy. I'm thrilled for her - I would never wish what I had on anyone else - but just cannot shake this enormous envy of what she's gone through. I tried to talk to DP, and he informed me I was selfish to think that way, so have given up. Don't think he can understand that to me the whole birth experience isn't just something that happened to me, it's inextricably linked up with who I am and how I feel about many things now. He also hates talking about it because he found it so hard to see me suffer, so basically was desperate to end the conversation.

Sorry for me me me post.

That's not a me me me post at all Hopefully, infact it's a very normal post from someone who has suffered a degree of birth trauma.

It is very important that you talk about what you went through, and very normal (and ok) that you are envious of your friends birth.

I would suggest you sit down with your dp and talk about what happened and how it makes you feel. Do not hold back, say exactly how it is. I believe facing it head-on is a way to start exorcising the demons that lurk about T's birth. Your dp also needs to talk about as it has obviously affected him too.

Did a MW or any other health professional ever de-brief you about T's birth? Is it something you would be interested in? It's never too late. It will be upsetting at the time, but ultimately there may be some answers for you.

Hugs to you both xxx

Hopefully It is normal that you feel like that.
It was not an easy birth and you could not do the things your friend is doing now,but(this may help you) that was the birth of your own special and unique baby, the one is still with you and will bring you many happiness.You are a great mum and did what you could at the time. Maybe the experience at the time was more intense because of pain, but it was your sand unique.
I had to return to hospital after coming home from the c section ans stayed for a week in the ward after that. I felt like "Why me? Why can't I be at home like other mums?
I then, started thinking of that as "my experience" however painful it was and it did help me. I stopped comparing myself with the tipical mother who has a troublefree birth, a baby who does not cry or complain,sleeps through the night and eats everything.
Lots of hugs.
Keep on telling us how you feel. It is normal to feel envious. I would, it is ok.

Hopefully, I feel envy too. You hear those stories of yoga breathing mothers who sigh their baby out. Or the pool births where the baby swims up to the surface in complete silence and latches on. It could have been choreographed by Michel Odent, no?

But from my envy I conjure up this rebellious need to reappropriate Diego's birth, all 22 hours of it: the makeshift labour ward, the pain, the breathing for nothing, the failed epidural that followed, the double episiotomy, the three consecutive midwives (heartless, clueless and cold respectively), and the fact that I had to demand being given back my baby the moment he was born.

And here we are despite it all, and more importantly, here are our babies. And we love them fiercely no matter what.

I have not spoken about the birth much either, but if that's what you need, tell us, thell your DP, tell a friend, write it in your diary. And be proud of yourself above all.

Its been dh's birthday, a friends 30th and some bad internet access that's stopped me being here for a few days!

hopefully I really feel your pain. Whenever one of my friends has a baby and says the birth was 'fine' or is now a distant memory, I feel more and more disappointed at what a disaster dd's birth was. I had a wonderful birth with ds, but instead of 'healing' the memory of dd's, it further emphasised how bad was. I think about it often, in fact yesterday I burst into tears in the shower coz I was running through in my head what I wished I'd screamed at the midwives on the postnatal ward at the time...except of course I didn't know what sort of help to ask for, and I'm not the screaming type! If we do ever have no3 then I think I'll ask for trauma counselling over no1 before the birth.

I'm trying to be very philosophical about swine fle, I'm generally quite a pragmatic person, but we're all going away to London next weekend and although I feel confident in my own ability to fight it, what about my dcs...?

Brief house update: we showed round the lovliest couple on wed, and we would love them to live here! I could tell they liked the house - the woman was talking about where all her stuff would go. But they're viewing other properties over the weekend so we'll have to see this week. Friday's viewing was cancelled...about 10mins after i'd finished cleaning the house. Grr!

Thank you so much for all the kind words. I will have a proper read through them in a bit - MIL is here and it would be a shame to burst into tears or something equally embarrassing in front of her!

Had a lovely lovely day at a local country show today, which I was completely against going to as I thought it would be crap, then had to eat my words

ILTMIMI I never had any kind of debrief on T's birth, and TBH it never really occurred to me, but the feelings I have haven't really reduced over time as I thought they would, and have been brought right back to the forefront of my mind with this reminder. I think it could possibly be a very useful thing to do, how do I go about arranging it? Talk to GP? Anyone know?

Potxola that helps - the thought that it was my unique experience to get my unique baby. It's a really nice way of looking at the less-than-perfect times.

Pacita I know what you mean - I was always able to ignore 'good' birth stories when it was people I didn't know, but somehow the idea that someone I know and care for (and who is similar to me in many ways, physical and mental) had it go right when it went so wrong for me brought it home much more.

Starlight I expect I am projecting this 'perfect' birth on her when it wasn't as perfect as all that, and I must make sure I'm understanding and a good friend when it inevitably gets tougher at some point - I have one friend who had the 'baby pinks' where she was ridiculously happy for about 8 weeks, then came down with a thud, so I should make sure I'm a good friend in case something similar happens to this friend.

Carriebo I think I was sort of thinking I could gloss over the drama of T's birth because I'll get a CS next time, so won't have to go through labour again, but I think now that perhaps, as you say, a 'good' birth won't erase the memory of T's awful one.

He is a brilliant baby, and is healthy, hardly ever whinges and sleeps really well now and eats and all the rest, and I should thank my lucky stars for what I have.

MIL was asking again when she'll get to have him over night/for a weekend. She is obsessed with this, and I told her in no uncertain terms that I'm not in any kind of rush to leave him overnight, as I'm not remotely stressed by it, and, crazy as it sounds, DP and I actually like spending time with him and don't need a break in any way. I think because her daughter (SIL) really enjoyed having breaks from her son and didn't cope so well, and she very much enjoyed being the rescue party

Yes, my MIL keeps on making similar suggestions. I know I should be grateful, but it gets my back up.

Hopefully - I don't know exactly how to go about it but if you contact the head of midwifery at your local, she should be able to point you in the right direction. Have a look on your local's website, they may list her name and further contact details.

I believe whoever holds the appt with you will go through your birth notes prior to the appt, and will talk you through the birth and answer any questions you may have.

Having a healthy and happy baby goes some way to help the healing (mental not physical!) but it doesn't heal you totally.

hopefully don't feel bad about what you are feeling. It does sound quite normal. I think there's a coupld of mums on this thread who had counselling isn't there? Sounds like a good idea to me.

I wish my mil or mum lived close enough to be able to take the boys overnight DS1 stayed with my mum and dad once for 2 nights while we went way with some friends in Scotland but that's the only time we've been able to do it. There's a really posh hotel opened near here which isn't actually all that expensive at the weekends (its for posh business people who use Farnborough airport) so I half jokingly suggested to dh that when his parents are down in Sept for ds2's dediction that they stay here and we stay in the hotel up the road.

DH now has 2 flights out to Lisbon next week. After trying to decide if he should cancel his flight so he could go to the interview and then fly out 2 days after us we discovered that it was actully cheaper to book a new flight than it was to cancel one and change it to a different day! So now we can wait until he hears from the 1st job before decided what to do.
So if anyone fancies a 1 way trip to Lisbon let me know!

hopefully my friend who recently had a horrid birth talked to her health visitor who arranged for her to meet with the consultant who'd looked after her in hospital, and I believe there's also a midwife who is in charge of talking peopel through their notes. I'd try through HV rather than GP first, that seems to be more effective round here anyway!

This saturday I'm having my first ever night away from ds I'm not looking forward to it! I don't feel the need for a break, and if he wakes in the night it seems right that it should be me who sees to him. It'll only be the 5th night I've been away from dd. They'll both be with dh and he's perfectly capable, I'm at a hen party

debi when is your ds's dedication? Mine is 20th Sept - combined with 1st birthday party!

I can't believe our babies will turn 1 on the next thread. gulp. In fact Johnworf and Jenbot's babies will already be 1!!