Brooking no argument for babies who sleep, eat, smile and behave perfectly at all times. Yeah right!

[scarletfingernail]

New thread, here we go...

My BBBB's did not heed the cheerleading. They were horrible. S keeps waking up wide awake wanting to play, like yours scream. Except I am losing it . Shouted at dh at midnight for not helping when hr only got home from work exhausted at 9:45pm. Nice.

Oh, and i let s sleep with me after I did his pooey nappy at 5am as he was so awake and putting him back meant b had been woken 2 or 3 times by him already. Ffs.

biscuits I heard with egg donation it was harder to find donors now as its not anonymous any more so your grown biological child could trace you in the future. Or am I totally confused here and mixed up with something fictional I watched?!

Yes, once they're 18 the child born using your egg can.contact you if they wish biscuits

www.spirehealthcare.com/london-fertility-centre/egg-donation/

I'm not saying it'd definitely stop me, but i find the thought a bit strange and would have to think hard over how I'd feel.

Yes I knew they could trace you but I rather like / liked the idea of helping someone who was struggling. Just raised the idea with DH though and he wasn't too keen. He thinks I should just let myself get back to normal after the DSs and was thinking about what if they did track you down and had a problem? You have no moral, financial or legal obligation to them but if they turned up penniless what would you do? I suppose he makes a decent point there?

I'm nearly too old anyway, and I'm not sure they'd want my dodgy eyes in any event. Hey ho......

Gosh, that's an interesting idea, Biscuits. I hadn't considered it, no. I suppose I feel a bit ambiguous about the idea of DH donating sperm - same thing, really. Someone turns up aged 18 who is either your child or your DH's but not both, and you have had no input whatsoever into their upbringing...I don't know, I guess I'd feel responsible for them all the same, because they would be my biological child, but it would all be confusing and weird. On the other hand, what if you donated eggs but the child never visited you? How would you feel in 18 years as the time passed and no one contacted you saying 'I'm your biological son'? My aunt gave a baby up for adoption in the early 80s. His name was Adam, and that's all she knows about him. When he would have turned 18 she thought he would find her, but he never did. He must be 28 or 29 now and he's never contacted her. She was devastated - does he not want to find her? Does he hate her for giving him up? Does it just mean that he's very happy with his life and doesn't feel the need? Is he even still alive?

I think I wouldn't be able to stop myself wondering about the baby or babies - and I would want to have them. Selfishly, I would want them to be mine...little cuddly babies of mine, out there somewhere with some other woman mothering them? No. I don't think I could do it. I've lost one baby and it would feel too similar, only this time, I would have volunteered to give them away.

Yes, I think maybe I hadn't thought enough about there actually being a future baby, and you're right, you would feel responsible, even if you weren't legally / financially. I'd really been thinking about helping a couple who couldn't conceive (rather like donating blood, you don't think too much about where it goes) but of course there is then potentially a baby (if it even worked). And as you say, there is a baby out there that you've had no input into the upbringing. Most people who have a baby adopted (I imagine) are finding the best solution to a less than ideal situation iyswim. As in people don't set out to have a baby to give up for adoption (does that make sense?). So this would be halfway between the two. And what if they did turn up and hadn't had the same advantages as my two boys (not meaning that to sound smug) I'd feel guilty I think . Even if they'd been loved and cared for, I think maybe I would just feel responsible.

And of course it makes total sense you wanting to keep all snuggly too babies to cuddle up with - you've been through something no one should ever have to suffer . I hope you don't think I was being insensitive raising the idea of giving away eggs, it certainly wasn't my intention to offend.

Interesting what you say about your aunty. How distressing for her. I'd never considered that people who 'give up' (I don't really like that term - it's not like giving up chocolate for lent!) for adoption would be expecting contact down the line. I wonder what the proportion is of children who were adopted that actually make contact? It's entirely possible I suppose that his adopted parents never told him he was adopted?

hello, I'm a bit behind so need to go back and catch up.

DS1 much better, but poor DS2 croaky and coughing now. got practically no sleep and started work at 6am.

DH was adopted as baby and hasn't ever tried to find his birth parents. (bil also adopted separately) i think DH's birth mother was quite young. MIL sometimes talks about it after a few . the wee story about how they picked baby DH up from a home :( think MIL had wee tears in her eyes talking about it. she wasn't able to have babies, had a lot of mcs.

expressing break over, must go back to work.

later dudes...

Can someone teach my baby to sleep again please,, after nearly a week of quite good sleeping she has now forgotten how to do it and today wants to feed every 1.5hrs added to which i'm getting a cold I think and af appears to have arrived. Its not fair!

Anyhow on a seperate note I told dh we were adopting our next child, I was in labour at time. We always said no more than 2 children, didn't want an only child like we both are. I actually asked him what he wanted and he said after stress I put him through with emcs he doesn't want any more children not even adopted ones,,, he said we turned out ok even as only child.

Hope everone else's LO remember how to sleep allowing their parents to actually get some sleep themselves

MIL was adopted and has never tried to find her birth parents. Whilst it's obviously really hard for me to imagine I can't imagine not wanting some kind of medical history for my children more than anything else. I have a blood condition though so am probably a bit paranoid about things like that more than normal!

From what I can gather MILs adoptive parents were ok but not great - they left the PILs homeless with a baby and one on the way when they sold the shop the PILs were managing out from under them. They had a bio son too. Im real nosy and would love to know more but seems wrong to ask somehow.

Think it explains her issues with dd1 a bit. Her interactions with her are about her needing something emotional from dd1 rather than dd1's needs.

Oh, how sad, Jaggy! I mean, how lovely that your MIL adopted him, but how sad to go to a home and see all the babies and children, just like dogs in a rescue home. What does your DH think about his birth parents? It's a tricky one - I think sheer curiosity would make me want to try to find mine, if I were adopted, but then I would be worried about the effect on my adoptive mum, and what if the birth mum didn't want to see me? It's a minefield!

Biscuits, you aren't being insensitive at all, don't be silly! I didn't even know how I felt until I started to think about it, so how could you? Thank you for the hug!

I don't know much about my aunt's situation - this is stuff that she told my mum, not stuff that she told me directly. But I think when Adam was adopted, she did think she would never see him again, but then later the law changed and she was able to register with some sort of company/database so that if he ever wanted to find her, her details would be available. But he never did.

Too pump is on it's way - apologies for the wrapping - I'm terrible at it. It might look like one of the DSs are trapped inside but I've checked and they are both still here

Biscuits you are a very generous person

too it is strange not to have any baby pictures of DH before about 6 months when he was eventually adopted. it sounded like the adoption was planned before he was born, but the process seemed to take ages, hence him being in the home for a while. i guess they didn't take pictures there. he doesn't seem that interested about birth parents, i think he'd feel bad for his parents if they knew he was looking into it anyway. some of his baby pics are very like DS2. :)

too much grumbling bitching at work today. we have a work colleague who just rips the piss out of the rest of the team and is lazy and lies to our faces. it is somewhat infuriating.

For Sale: 7 month old baby, currently growing a ginger afro mohawk and two teeth. Skilled in the art of tugging heartstrings with big well-timed grins. Added bonus: night-time waking mode deters burglars and ensures you don't have to worry about falling asleep and missing out on any of the small hours! Delivery included.

Biscuits you are a kind and selfless person to be considering a step like egg donation. There are so many issues and difficulties with it, but ultimately you'd be giving the gift of a family to people who wouldn't otherwise be able to have one. I personally don't think I could do it, but I'm glad there are women out there who are more generous than me. I think it's a shame that men are so free and easy with sperm donation, but egg donation (understandably) is so scarce. Anyways, I'm not saying you should do it, only you know if it's right for you and your family, but whatever you decide you're still a wonderful person for giving it such serious thought.

Of course we all knew you were wonderful anyway!

Dream sending hugs your way for your difficult night with S. Clearly he's been conspiring with little A and they've decided not to give in without a fight. Last night little A cried from 3 until 6. No breaks. I've never seen anything like it. She literally cried for the entire time she would usually be in my bed, before having her morning milk. I stayed firm (although I had joined in with the crying by the end) and we both pretty much passed out at 6. She then woke at 8 for breakfast, and I'm strictly curtailing her naps again today in the vain hope she'll be too tired tonight for a repeat performance. This is has been the most depressing part of motherhood so far, even worse than the first 8 weeks of bfing. It doesn't help that AF turned up again last night, just to improve my mood even further!

Jaggy boo to irritating co-workers! That's another thing I'm not looking forward to going back to!

Too tired and fed up to think of a Christmas name. At this rate it'll just be "BahHumbug"!

scream you poor thing - it sounds so hard

This is just a thought and I know CC gets really bad press, but you know if A is crying anyway, do you think part of it is her seeing you there? Although tbf, 3 hours is a pretty impressive effort - can't knock her stamina! But I just wondered whether maybe it would be worth giving it a go?totally understand if that's not what you want to do though. What do you do in her room? Any physical contact? Picking up? Cuddling? I'm stabbing in the dark here though, I just wish I could help! Or maybe one of those no cry solutions or whatever the one was that Dream was doing with her dd when pg with the twins - gradual withdrawal from the room type thing?

Biscuits, what a kind, generous person you are considering egg donation. It's something I'm wondering if I'll consider further down the line. If you donate them, do you get told if they're used? I think the whole 18 year old coming to you years down the line may be a bit distressing - or, as Too says, it could easily go the other way, being distressed at not hearing anything from them. Very difficult.

It must have been so sad for your MIL Jaggy. I went to a baby home in India when I was there - loads and loads of tiny babies crawling around - they loved seeing me and my travelling companions, and just wanted to be played with for ages. It was lovely but so, so sad. The travelling was part of a school trip - one of my teachers later went back and adopted a baby from a similar home!

Sorry to hear about the rubbish nights :( Iz didn't have a brilliant night, though not as bad as Dream's BBBBs, or Scream's A. Three hours must have been horrendous:(

What with Biscuits talking about CC, I'm thinking of a new sleep solution - CS - Controlled Shouting. I've noticed Iz shouts a lot at night to get my attention. Last night she shouted for a few minutes, and I eventually got up - but knowing it might take a while to get her down, I popped to the loo - during which she fell back to sleep! I've realised she'll do her trying-to-sleep noises after shouting for a few minutes... so I'm guessing I should be leaving her to shout for a couple of minutes now when she wakes at night?

Biscuits I just pat and sing to little A, make sure she doesn't get tangled up in the cot bars while prowling around, and generally try to soothe her. If she gets particularly hysterical I give her a hug while she's standing up in the cot and I'm the other side of the bars. She's so tired poor thing she always tries to sleep on me in this position. When she's calm again though I try lying her back down and the crying invariably resumes.

I stay with her because my theory is at least I know she's not afraid. I have an absolute abhorrence of the idea that she might be alone and afraid and calling out for me but I'm not coming. At least when I'm in the room, and right by her, although she's crying because she wants to be held, at least I don't think she's afraid of her surroundings or scared I'll never return. I'm probably all wrong with this though, I'm probably making it worse by being in the room but not picking her up. I'm trying to be consistent, by not picking her up. I want her to discover that if she lies down and goes to sleep I will always still be there when she wakes, so there's no reason not to feel comfortable in the cot. If I pick her up I think I'm sending the message that if she just cries hard enough and long enough eventually I'll pick her up - I don't think that helps either of us.

I'm hoping to try Dream's gradual withdrawal thing, but first I have to get DD to sleep in the cot with me in the room, before I can start withdrawing.

It's so upsetting for us both though. I'm pretty sure I'm doing it all wrong. Little A is so unhappy each night, and I just want to pick her up and comfort her. However she always wants to spend the whole night with me, and I just can't do it anymore. I desperately wish she would just sleep through, although that seems so impossible right now.

Argh, let's not think about the gradual retreat aka Landing Vigil. Too depressing. S woke B up 3 times when I was trying to put S back down before I cried gave up. Stubborn, irritating little tikes eh scream. I'm so stuck because its so unfair poor b gets so disturbed, debating travel cot downstairs for s. B had a bad night anyway though. And is a bit constipated again. I've upped the dairy in my diet. Hmm.

Yawn. I'm tired and fed up.

Your logic makes total sense Scream and of course you've thought this all through. As for 'doing it wrong' there is no right way to deal with this sort of thing (or indeed most of the things we deal with as parents). Ultimately though you are thinking of the best way to do it for A so if she is at the centre of what you're planning, you can't be going far wrong . I'm sure if you're consistent she'll get the hang of it. She will get it, she will!

Now I fear I'm getting too much credit for being a Good Person . I don't even know if I would donate eggs or even if they'd want me. I'd not really considered the 'future child' aspect and was really coming at it from the idea of helping a couple who were struggling, like some of the lovely people we see on here etc. obviously it is important to think it all through. It's not really ideal to have to so it so soon either as it is bound to take a long time / lot of effort / lot of appts etc and of have to do it before I'm 36 I think.

I might ring and ask if they would even consider me with my defective eyes as that could put a halt to it all before I waste any brain power on it!

Argh, I x posted before scream and just seen now that the reply I wrote isn't here. Gah.

Briefly it said I'm struggling with consistency now as D woke B up 3 times last night, which is horrible for B and hard for me. Considering travel cot downstairs for S so he doesn't disturb B... Who's also not doing so well, bit constipated, I've upped my chocolate dairy intake, hmm.

But DD would never go to sleep with me in her room, or if she could see me, she just watched me and was too aware of my every movement- I'd think she was nearly asleep, itch my arm or something and she'd be checking out what i was up to. that's why I had to be on the landing. S is also best just left, with me not in sight though I can 'shush shush shush' from behind their solid cot ends. might be worth a try. I've never left them crying though for the reasons you've said.

Right, on with bath time for me. Dreading tonight. I hate it when they wake up perky and wanting to play every two hours, such a palavar. Bring back just feeding to sleep!!!!

Oh, and negligent mother that I am,I just realised B is now significantly taller and heavier feeling than S, who was always my bigger baby. Seeing as B eats well and S doesn't, wondering what i can/ should do... Guess I better get them weighed. They've not been weighed since they were 18 weeks, 3 months ago!!!

that's not negligent, i only just got R weighed last week after missing the clinic day loads of times. he was a 'wee' 20lb lump at 7 months.

he's still quite rubbish at food. a new added complication is that he sleeps through 1 or 2 meal times every day and frankly i don't always have the time or energy to get him something when he wakes up. he looked quite interested in dinner then burst into tears as he was so tired. he had a feed instead and was
asleep in 2 minutes.

still croaking away the poor wee guy.

away to attempt an early transfer to cot, here goes nothing...

I didn't mean the not weighing being negligent, I meant only just noticing how titchy he's looking compared to his little brother- who's not so little now!! I offer food if they sleep through a meal, just to make my days even more annoying. S is refusing spoon feeding but its just baby led vomiting if he does it himself. So frustrating.

biscuits, you're a lovely person. Most people would realize what's involved in egg harvesting and give up on the idea! It's a lovely thought. Someone at work carried twins for her brother and his wife and I was just so impressed and when i had my boys the section after mine was twin boys who were also with a surrogate mother. I got freaked out when i saw the twins with their mum about how bad I looked compared to her after having them but then realised she'd not actually been pregnant!!

Oh, and your poor boy jaggy, hope he's better soon, & mine too . Hope he's asleep in his cot now and you get some rest. I'm in awe of you working after no sleep and

Hope all mum's and LO's have a good night.

Yo Brookers, things have been a bit hectic here. I've been reading but not had time to post.

Scream I'm brooking that you get some night time respite ASAP. Your problem has stumped me, I've not idea what to suggest but as with most things I suspect that in a year's time you will look back on this and barely remember how awful it feels right now. This too shall pass and all that.

Also brooking for Jaggy and Dream and their poorly babies.

Good luck for your appointment tomorrow Musical

How spooky re the egg donation Biscuits in that it's something I'd also been pondering recently. I guess it's because we both feel our families are complete. I go round and round in circles thinking that I'd love to give that gift to someone and how it would change someone's life and how shitty and unfair Mother Nature can be, to thinking that the reality of it would probably be I would always be wondering about 'my child/children'. Are they happy? Are they loved? Are they healthy? Are they being brought up in a stable environment? What if my known DC by some stroke of minuscule chance end up meeting them without realising and have a sexual/romantic relationship. My current thoughts on it are that I would do it for a close relative or friend where I would be known to the child, I don't think I could do it for a stranger. I admire anyone that has done it.

DS had his coeliac blood test today. I did feel awful for making him go through with it when they couldn't get any from his arm and went into his hand instead. He's got a bit of a nasty bruise on his hand but he seems quite proud of it now bless him.

DD is a snotbag. She and I are both absolutely full of cold but she's smiling though it. I'm being a wimp because it all seems to be behind my eyes and in my head and I'm feeling dreadful with it.

I finally had my date with Daniel Craig. I absolutely loved it and can't wait for it to come out on DVD now.

Ooh yes have a fab time Pomme

Those of you planning your next DC . Although I'm happy that we're done, I know i'm still always have pangs for newborn snuggles with my own DC.