Dec 08 Mums - Onwards and bloody well upwards!

[Beans36]

How's this? Thought I'd just press on with it!

Btw both of DH's grandfathers were left handed, as is his father and his brother. Not sure how he missed out!

ugh. Just had a truly hideous, screaming row with DP .
Short-term annoyance is that I wanted to spend this evening preparing for my interviews (I now have one on Monday as well as Tuesday).
Longer-term realisation is that I now realise DP will only ever be happy in London and I'm pissed off that it's taken me until now (and all the emotional and financial investments we've made here) to really and truly realise it.
I don't want to make this about the whys or who is to blame. But I understand that the only way we can be together (for him to not be a depressed shell of his former self) is to be back there).
For those who live in London, please tell me about why it's great. I need some serious reassurance that downsizing with two small people can be a great idea (other than the stark reality that both of us work in professions where 95% of the jobs are based in London and we currently have no income).
I feel very sad about the idea of leaving this general area (Sussex) but sadder at the alternative. So I need motivation, inspiration and practical ideas as to where would be good but not extortionate to live.
Sorry for me post. Am just at a v low ebb, B has an ear infection and still up all night every night, and feeling the pressure to get one of these jobs for which I am currently underprepared.

As far as I know there is no one on either side of our families who was left handed...ever. The only relation we have who is left handed is my step father. However, children of his generation, so also my own mum & dad's, in Australia, were made to sit on their left hand a forced to write with their right hand. Obviously so were previous generations, so it's possible that my great relations and beyond had a lefty in there somewhere, but had the left handedness suppressed.

Just on the way back from Madness concert, was so much fun. I am so loving getting back into seeing live music. Would love to check out some of the smaller venues in Den Haag that have good live music. Makes me feel a little younger. However, I think these days dancing to the Madness ska beat I look just a little less cool, well, more strange old lady gyrating.

Sorry Spot cross posted. I'm probably not much help as I'm feeling a little home sick for London esp after seeing Madness. We have a super cheap flat in London near canary warf but you would def be downsizing it has a very tiny bathroom and while it has three bedrooms one is quite small, & the livingroom is quite small. Also not the best area for schools. So really I'm no help. He is being quite unfair with this, really you need to sit down together and work out if this option is viable, not just him throwing an unhelpful strope.

DB I forgot to say I agree with you DSIS, more importantly she has a good perspective on this because she knows DS and knows what he is really like and can see that he isn't the boy that nursery makes him out to be. It really makes me sad how boys are so misunderstood these days. Normal boy behavior is so frowned on and put down and they are surprised when they become frustrated and then they label them as difficult when they act on this frustration.

Thing is, Vag, it is not just an unhelpful strop, I think he is on the verge of a nervous breakdown. . He is depressed every day. It is quite hard to live with.

Oh Spot. Have just logged on to read but must get sleep then will re-read it all tomorrow (Apols just back from working and knackered, mainly from arguing with dh from NY over plumbing disaster in out tenanted flat to be fair!) however, am concerned about you lot and want to reply. Hang in there x
Beans, oh no hows Chilli what happened!!??

Do you think all of that is to do with where you are living? I can understand that not being happy with where he is living making him feel unhappy, but he is obviously down and pinning it all on where you live, & thinking that moving will make it all better. To be so low about this seems an extreme reaction the stimuli. I think he might need to see a GP. If he is depressed, just moving won't help he might need counselling or even meds.

We got snow too. Only stayed on the cars, but blimey I could feel it on the cycle home, I thought me ears were going to freeze orf.

Spot, I don't know what to say really. But Vag could be right, what if moving to London doesn't make any difference. I think he should go and see his GP. At least get some form of help, as if you do decide to move it won't happen next week. It could be months before you find a house, schools etc.

I can't help with places as I only know tourist London.

Hope you are ok. xx

Also would he be happy with outside London but closer than you are now? There needs to be some sort of compromise here. It is no good moving if it will make you really unhappy.

Spot how are u today? Hope u didn't get too early a wake up call from B&T. I tend to agree with Vag. Sounds like he's assuming the issues are all related to moving out if London. Don't forget moving is bloody stressful, even more so when you own the house and throw kids into the mix. I reckon he needs to sort out what the real problem is and then decide if moving is a good idea. Also I'm not against London at all but can't really understand why anyone would move BACK into London with young kids. Unless a big house and garden and parking etc it well affordable, (then i still wouldn't want to!) But also tend to think it makes much more sense to live out a bit with good train connections. But that's just me, and only you two can decide what's best for you all but above all I think he needs to chat to someone before big decisions like selling up and moving are made.

It's bloody cold here Vag. 2 degrees right now.
Beans what is going on with Chilli?

Oh spot, things sound so tough for you right now! I'm on phone so posting will be crap. I know nothing of London but you cannot simply move back for DP if it will be you that is then unhappy. Are the outskirts of London an option? I really wish I could say more to help

Both DCs are lefties, as is DH. DD has beautiful handwriting and is fine with letters. Yet does still occasionally get 2,5,7 the wrong way round. Interesting.

I missed some posts somewhere. Anyway. DH left handed and looks like DS is too. In right and DD seems to be. DS is mini DH on all counts and DD is me. Poor girl. She also rambles. Hasn't shut up since 18 mths. Remember ds didn't talk for ages. DH still doesn't

Good morning all,

Spot - you poor thing, not a nice atmosphere in which to prepare for important interviews. I do agree with Veg though, depression comes from within and when depressed it's easy to pin your unhappiness on some external factor and blame that. Location is an obvious thing to blame as you then feel you can physically run away from the feelings, but you can't run from your inner feelings. Your DP needs to seek treatment before forcing a disruptive and expensive move on the family.

Re London: I live here and love as a family city. I love the range of activities on offer and the sheer numbers of other people means you are likely to find local friends with similar interests etc. However, it's not all great. The kids will never have the freedom here that they would have somewhere smaller: the busy roads and sheer number of people mean, for example, I'd never let mine walk to school or play out. Plus primary schools aren't great unless you can afford to live in a good catchment area and secondary schools are in the main pretty dire. Secondary seems a long way off but it's not really if you don't want to keep repeating the expense of house moves.

You asked for areas. Near us is Acton, it's a large area and much of it is pretty uninspiring but Acton village is quite nice with some independent shops and cafes and a mainline station. Derwent Water primary is meant to be good. Nearer your old stomping ground I have a few friends who've recently moved to Walthamstow and seem happy. To the south Herne Hill has good schools (incl a great state secondary) and it's bear lovely Brockwell Park, although I'm not sure it's actually that cheap anymore.

Right better go and breakfast the girls who've been fibbed off watching Mama Mia up to now.

Just wanted to say a huge welcome back to EFFIE. It's so lovely to "see" you again. I'm sorry work has been hard but glad is setlling down and your DS is happy. Don't disappear on us again!

And Beans I hope Chilli is on the mend.

Oh spot you poor thing. I agree he needs to have a chat with someone and sort through his feelings to find the root of the problem before jumping into another change. Although of course the work thing is in itself a pretty strong reason. If he talks to his GP then perhaps he may be able to get some CBT? That would be pretty helpful in heloing him to recognise his behaviour, triggers and so on.

I can't help on the London thing, I went once when I was 10 then went to get my DofE presented. I'd have thought it would have some good stuff goign for it, the amount of free and interesting museums etc as the children grow older for example.

I guess the question is what does he miss about London? Is the a comprmise to be found where you live somewhere where you can be in London for a day trip fairly easily but that has a decent social aspect? But then again I suppose that kind of life is about as affordable as London itself.

I have a poorly baby. The others didn't get anything more than a cold and swine flu this young. He is so grumpy and clammy and he keeps bringing up sticky, yellow foam sick . Not sure how worries I should be. He has not fed at all yet today, hopefully he will when he wakes up (asleep on me).

Spot; I may be being unsympathetic to your DH, but I can't see a massive amount of difference between commuting from outside London and working f/t and living in London and doing the same. What exactly does he feel is missing? It does sound like he is pinning everything on a move which may not solve any of the underlying issues. And when you have children you need to think about what is practical and affordable - and learn to compromise.

And thanks for the lovely welcome back everyone .

Chilly here and our heating has once more gone on the blink. The advantages of renting means that it isn't us who foots the bill whenever the creaky system falls over again. And the advantages to living in a friendly town: I phoned the plumber who fixed it last time and he's popping over after he's collected his boy from football in case it's a quick fix.

Spot I LOVE London and don't really want to live anywhere else right now. So much to do with the kids, with friends, with DH, great parks, easy drive to proper country, so much energy and Vibrancy here. Sorry things are tough. can we tempt you up for a few beers at the meet up. TaLking of which, any closer on fixing a day?

Excuse rubbish typing. Bloody iPad

Can I emphasise the "but that's just me" part of my post earlier post! There are a lot of pro's to living in London with kids, just depends on each person's individual situation I reckon. ie finances, kids interests, parent's work. DH will be back working in London again next year, but my kids would go stir crazy - as would the dog, so I was happy to move out of Wimbledon when we did. Then there's me, the worry freak about traffic / kids etc. But for some it's a better choice. I think above all though Spot, you need to identify why dp thinks it will fix everything, and what he misses.
Had about 4 hours sleep and then spent all morning looking for a coffee machine. Had lovely brunch with the whole family though -rare these days!
Take away and Strictly / X Factor catch up is looking likely.
Yes lets firm up a meet up date. Vag are you about?

Thanks for all your kind words, folks. It's hard to explain, but the depression genuinely is situational - DP has always loved in London and loved it there, and what he misses most is having friends on the doorstep. He doesn't make friends easily and they're very important to him (much more so than to me, for example - ironically I have made more here, because it's much easier as a "mum' here to make friends).
Also, the job thing is a massive issue. For the last 5 year he's been home based, so totally isolated since we moved from London when T was 8 months old, and has ben through two bouts of my PND since then - and I am practically the only grownup he sees from day to day.

It's also a sensibility thing. Some people just need the culture of cities and simply don't value the extra square footage you get elsewhere. I do see where he's coming from, but we;re just operating from different starting points - I feel happy and settled here, so it's not as if everything is equal. But he hates it so much, and I do think that moving back (and getting a job, which is much easier when you are already in the thick of it - meeting people for drinks, etc) would solve a whole lot. It's just the fact that we don't have ANY money right now, and i'm feeling the looming deadline of the January school application cut off point.

Thank you for your suggestions of good places, Arti - Walthamstow would be a good choice as it's nearer my mum's (Cambridgeshire), although if I got the job I'm going for on Tuesday I'd need to be in Kensington. (which is only 1hr 20 from here anyway).

Can def be tempted by beers at meet up - really want to come along and actually meet some of you guys for the first time.

What hideous times did your DC wake up this morning with the clock changing shenanigans?

Sorry about your poorly DS, Indith. Does he have a temperature?

I think B is a lefty. According to DP it means they're more likely to be good at football..

If you are really sure London will "fix" your DH Spot then maybe it's worth exploring. I realise I didn't sound that enthusiastic about London life earlier. I do love it. I can see your DH's point about wanting to be near old friends, I have many old friends spread across the town and many newer friends in my neighbourhood and the combo makes for a pretty constant string of people to see and parties to go to - I love that. This weekend we collected autumn leaves and watched the deer in Richmond Park and sheltered from the cold with a free afternoon at the Science Museum which the kids love: we had so many options, London is all about choice. Last weekend we had an early Halloween party and we had 12 kids all of whom live within 3 mins walk of us and I do like that close proximity of so many friends. There are great things about London and of course you know that already.

Quick Christmas question for you all (sorry I know it's Oct). Before kids DH and I used to spend 2 hours on Christmas morning delivering Christmas dinners to the elderly and isolated. Meals on Wheels doesn't operate on Christmas day so DH's old school steps in to serve our Borough. It felt a great thing to do, you only deliver to about three addresses but you stay and chat a bit and realise you are the only contact these people will have all day and it feels important. We've wanted to do it again, it would be 10am-12 noon so after the kids have opened their pressies and before DH's parents serve the family lunch. Perfect timing. But DD1 is distraught at our Christmas routine changing (we normally play at home then go early to PiL's and fo not help cook. I think it would be great for DD1 to see how lucky our family is and I've tried to explain how good it feels to help others at Christmas but she is adamant she doesn't want to. Would it be wrong to make her? I don't want to make her sad at Christmas but I also want her to realise it's not all about her.

RT that sounds wonderful!

Is there any sort of volunteering that she can do too? Perhaps it would make her realise how fun it can be to help others, even if maybe she comes along to a couple of houses with the grandparents and then goes home again?

Well I can think of better ways to spend a Sunday, just home from hospital with ds2 who is still not keeping any feeds down, just projectile vomming as soon as he has fed. they let us home as he has kept small amounts of rehydration stuff down so we have some with us and strict instructions on amounts of fluid. I am def going to have to clean the sofas. on the plus side a couple of days or so with no solids might sort his constipation out!

Indith, poor little fellow, hope he recovers soon. Try to get some rest too, you must be shattered.

RT, I think that that is a lovely idea. Could you do stockings first thing with perhaps one present which could come with you on the trip, then do the rest with PIL? I try to make the DC choose one (nice) toy each from theirs which we can give to charity, then when we are in Asda they choose a small toy each for the Christmas scheme which gives brand new stuff to kids who otherwise won't get anything. Thinking about other people is a big part of Christmas, so I think it's great to try to incorporate it into your day. Good on you.

I have a strange feeling that DC3 could be a wee boy, but am usually wrong. Are you going to find out?

Right, off to have supper and Downton. Night all.

Having dissed living in London, am thinking of a trip to the Museum of Childhood today to sample the half term activities (they have Scalextric sets to play with!).

museum of childhood sounds awesome!