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October 2005 Babies - it just keeps getting better and better!

712 replies

Elf1981 · 22/01/2006 21:29

Thought I'd steal the honours of setting up a new thread

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morningpaper · 23/01/2006 21:24

MB what book is your technique from? You could always start a thread. I thought that the sleep-training techniques aren't supposed to be used on babies under 6 months but I might be wrong.

Baby found her voice here too - so funny at times! Also VERY VERY whingy today - red cheeks and BITING hard and looking ANGRY. Hope it's not teething so early.

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mummygow · 23/01/2006 21:26

Hi everyone, very brave going to mother and toddlers - I still cant get out before 11.30 and thats to go and get jess from nursery then its her lunch then when Cameron wakes its another bottle and then dh home.

Cameron is talking and chuckling constantly its fab!!

He has been teething this weekend - he is a poor wee sole but still sleepin in the night (touch wood)

Is anyones lo trying to or has started rolling - Cameron doesnt look as if he'll ever want to?
Although his legs and arms go like the clappers when he is playing or excited. The other thing thats worrying me is he doesnt really like being put on his front so how am I going to encourage him to start pushing up on his arms etc..............................................oh no I'm becoming a neurotic mum again!!!!!!

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jessicaandrebeccasmummy · 23/01/2006 22:04

i think we have teething here too - MP - Becky has been exaclty the same today!

Not sure about the rolling thing - becky likes being on her back and thrashing her arms and legs about too!

Buying a BUMBO tomorrow in the hope i can get 5 mins peace!

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fastasleep · 23/01/2006 23:58

My LO mainly gets propped on a floor cushion on the sofa so that DS can't get to her so I don't know if she'll ever start crawling!

She has a funny sense of humour, she only laughs now and again... weirdly whenever DS seems to fall over!

Must remember to put her on the floor for a thrash in the evenings, although she did start rolling up and down the sofa at 2 months old which is why we needed the huge floor cushion to keep her safe! I don't think rolling ages have much bearing on development as a whole, DS didn't roll until after he could sit (5 months) I think he was 7 months when he first rolled, and then crawled almost exactly the week after and then never stopped, he walked (tottered!) at 11 months.. Friend's DS rolled at about 3 months and then learned to crawl and walk a lot later, but they are on a pretty level pegging now

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Elf1981 · 24/01/2006 00:10

Evie has also adopted the angry looking face, the "i can cram that in my mouth and eat it" attitude and is constantly biting at something. If she's teething, I wish she'd get on with it! If not, bring back the permanent dimples! I get them when I act like a loon for her (cue dancing in the aisles at Tesco because I'm running a little late for a feed and it keeps her quiet).
Brought her a door baby bouncer, v excited.
Shopping tomorrow for bridesmaid dresses for my sisters wedding (for me and my sis, not Evie!) so that will be amusing.
I'm all blissed out as I have had a two and a half hour soak in the bath and read of a book And I've even straightend my hair so that I dont have to do the "quick wash / towel dry" thing in the morning which invariably leaves me looking like a bush woman.
Brought some baby foods today, two packs of baby rice, one broccili and cauliflour cheese and also a raspberry and straberry dessert. They were on offer at Tesco and so I thought I'd pick them up for when I do decide to start weaning her. Got a good shelf life. Added them to the Rusks I brought. Not sure if the rusks will last long, I think they're yummy!!
As for rolling over, Evie rolls onto her side but I think thats more gravity assisted as she does it mainly on the bed / sofa when she seems to be on a slight slope. She's more interested in lifting her head and shoulders off the surface she's lying on. Doesn't get her far but she looks cute!

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mawbroon · 24/01/2006 07:28

Johnny is trying his hardest to roll over but is a long way off yet though! I did find him in his cot at 2am lying sideways across it at a 90degree angle to where I had left him! I do wonder if it was hunger or banging his head off the bars of the cot that woke him. I have him in a sleeping bag which is quite long and although I tuck the spare bit in under the mattress, he still manages to wriggle enough to untuck it.

MP - I'm not using any book with the sleep thing, but just simply going in every 5 mins to lift and cuddle him for a moment and then putting him back down. So far so good - 1st night crying/lifting for an hour then slept 8pm until 8.30am with one feed at 2.30am. Last night was crying/lifting for 30 mins then he slept from 7.45pm until 6.45am with one short feed at 2am. After having had weeks of him only being able to drop off whilst lying feeding with me, I can tell you that listening to him cry for an hour is worth it. I am also adopting this strategy for the afternoon nap.

Just as I think the sleep is coming under control, we are going away to Holland for a week which will no doubt bugger it all up. DH's grandfather has taken ill and is in hospital. Most of that side of the family are away on holiday, so we are going over with PILs so that there are more people around for him. I'm sure our fellow passengers in the neighbouring cabins will feel their hearts sink when they see that there is a 13 week baby to keep them awake at night. I don't think that the travel cot will fit in the cabin, so guess where Johnny is going to have to sleep - yes, with Mummy in the bed which is about a foot wide.... I am very glad that I was organised enough to have applied for a passport for him so that we can go at such short notice.

Never a dull moment

MB

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mawbroon · 24/01/2006 07:31

Forgot to say. I phoned the milk bank in Glasgow yesterday. They told me that they didn't need me as the supply was meeting the demand and it didn't warrent them travelling to my house to collect the milk and they were only collecting from local women. She did take my phone number though and said that if the supply/demand balance changed and they needed me then she would contact me but if I hadn't heard from them by the time DS is 6 months then they don't need me.

I don't know why, but I felt a little rejected.

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morningpaper · 24/01/2006 09:21

MB I rang my nearest milk bank and they said I was too far away! I felt a bit rejected too! I think I got a bit excited at the thought of doing something that would benefit someone apart from my small family - it feels very insular sometimes and I liked the thought of doing something a bit 'bigger', even though it wouldn't have taken muich effort, IYKWIM.

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mawbroon · 24/01/2006 09:33

Well MP, I won't take it so personally if it happened to you too!! I was a blood donor before ttc and of course that's out the window for a while to come, so I thought this would be an equally good thing to do and I know for sure that if I had a baby who required donated milk I would be so grateful to those who had taken the trouble to donate it.

DS has just gone down for his morning nap without having to use pick up/put down.......

MB

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BigBumpBonnie · 24/01/2006 09:35

The baby door bouncer is the best invention ever! DD1 hated it but I put Ruby in hers yesterday and she absolutely loved it. It was so cute watching her and she got the hang of it really quickly. She was actually giggling whilst bouncing up and down. So now we can alternate between baby gym, playnest, door bouncer and bouncy chair! It's so hard knowing what to do with them when they're awake. She isn't rolling properly yet but does sort of go onto one side and is definately getting a lot more lively.

Planned to go to soft play this morning and got my baby bag ready last night, clothes for dd1 and ruby all laid out. Well dd1 woke up this morning, said she doesn't feel well and has refused to get dressed so we're not going anywhere for a while, so much for me being organised. On the plus side this will be her third week of going to play school two afternoons a week and it has been really good to have some one on one time with Ruby.

I think dd1 has taken well to being a big sister but I do still think there's a fair amount of jelousy. Yesterday everyone was admiring Ruby's bouncing ability in her door bouncer and dd1 started jumping up and down on Ruby's inflatable nest saying 'I can bounce too!' I really have to make sure I don't give Ruby too much attention when she's around but it is hard.

How's everyone elses toddlers adjusting to their new siblings now?

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trice · 24/01/2006 09:45

I can't believe that some of you are already at weaning stage! but then Hannah is the second youngest baby on the board I think. I didn't wean ds until he was 7 months as he really didn't like the eating thing, he still doesn't to be honest. I don't want Hannah to grow up too fast, I am enjoying her being a tiny baby.

J&RM we had a bumbo given to us last week, Hannah is just too small for it and flops around looking lost. It will be another month before she is ready I think.

I got a new cardi for Hannah yesterday which only has one big button. It is a revelation. I hate all that fiddling around with tiny buttons trying to get a wriggling, squeaking baby dressed. Added to which she managed to swallow a press stud yesterday and it came out in her nappy so I am a bit paranoid about the choking hazard.

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Moomin · 24/01/2006 09:55

agree with morningpaper - all the literature i've read about controlled crying says to wait until they're 6m. anytime before this they're still reacting to their own basic needs. it's doing my head in still having nights when ds2 is waking in the very early hours but i figure she's not doing it out of habit at her age - she's genuinely hungry! it doesn't last forever anyway.

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Moomin · 24/01/2006 10:04

Here: found some info:

"What does it mean to let a baby "cry it out"?
For decades, parents have been told that the best way to train a baby who no longer needs nighttime feedings to sleep through the night is to let him "cry it out". In other words, put the baby in his cot, shut the door, and let him bawl. Though there are variations on this technique, the general idea is the same: After about a week of unheeded crying, a baby will learn to fall asleep on his own. Without a rewarding response to his cries, the theory goes, a baby learns that it's not worth the trouble to cry so hard.

Dr Richard Ferber, author of Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems, advocates the most widely-used approach to this seemingly heartless approach, which shouldn't be used with children under six months of age. Ferber recommends that parents not leave their baby cold turkey, but that they periodically comfort him without picking him up. Make sure he's not twisted up in his blankets or without his favourite stuffed animal, then pat him gently, tell him you love him but it's bedtime, and leave the room. Don't turn on the lights, linger, or hold him. The first night you might wait five minutes before your cribside appearance, the second night 10 minutes, and so on. Eventually, your baby will learn to fall asleep on his own. But Dr Ferber does caution that no one approach works for every baby.

Should we let our baby cry it out?
Among new parents, this question is hotly debated. Is there an easier, less heartless way than so called "Ferberising?" Perhaps.

Here's what some childcare experts say about crying it out.

? Dr Penelope Leach, author of Your Baby and Child, and many other books on babies

Approach: "Compassionate Crying It Out" If you leave your baby crying, he'll feel abandoned and fear that your departure at bedtimeand any other timeisn't safe.

When: Starting at around nine months--babies can't really learn that night-time is for sleeping until then.

What to do: Since the goal, Leach points out, is to help your baby feel that bedtime is safe and happy and that he can go to sleep on his own, don't abandon him outright. Instead, keep to your enjoyable bedtime rituals and when your baby cries go into his room, reassure him, and leave as often as you need to. Leach writes, "You may have to repeat this over and over again, but it is the only sure way eventually to convince him both that you will come and that you will not get him up."

? Dr T. Berry Brazelton, author of Touchpoints and many other books on babies and children

Approach: "Nurturing but Crying It Out" Before you begin any kind of program like this, make sure that both partners are in complete agreement.

When: Depends on the child--you could do this at six months or two years. Brazelton urges parents to examine their own motivations and their child before they begin this programme.

What to do: Be sure you've eliminated late afternoon naps (after 3pm), keep a relaxing, loving bedtime ritual, and don't nurse or rock your baby to sleep. Instead, put him down awake and stay with him, reassuring him that you're there but that he can fall asleep by himself. If you like, you can wake him up before your bedtime for a feeding, so that you won't worry that he's hungry later. Finally, be prepared for wakings every four hours or so. When he does cry out, go to him quietly and try not to stimulate him. Don't pick him up or rock him, but do soothe him and quietly reassure him. After you feel comfortable with this, don't go to him, but call out to him and reassure him, suggesting he snuggle with his teddy bear or other security object. Again, when you're comfortable, wait 15 minutes before responding to his cries and then repeat the above step.

? Dr Benjamin Spock, author of Baby and Child Care

Approach: "Cry It Out"

When: Three months

What to do: Say goodnight and don't look back. Usually, after three nights of unchecked crying, your baby will start going to sleep by himself. Spock says that most babies will cry for up to 30 minutes on the first night, realise they're not getting anywhere, and fall asleep. He writes: "I'm convinced that they are only crying from anger at this age...[Checking on her] only enrages her and keeps her crying much longer."

? Dr. William Sears, author of The Baby Book and others

Approach: Sleeping with baby or other responsive tactics. He writes, "The result of [crying it out] is usually the same: A strung-out mother and an angry baby, who will eventually exhaust himself to sleepbut at what price. We wish to put the cry-it-out approach to sleepforever."

When: From infancy until the child is ready for his own bed

What to do: Consider sharing your bed with your baby for the first few months or more of his life. According to Sears, mother and baby sleep better and longer side-by-side, baby gets warmth, nurturing and a readily available breast if he's breastfeeding, and babies thrive when they sleep near their parents. Plus, if the mother has returned to work, sleeping with her baby may help restore and build connections that can be frayed during the workday.

If you don't want to sleep with your baby, you can still use Sears' other suggestions for helping a baby learn to sleep through the night:

? Consider why your baby is waking and crying at night. Try to listen to his cries and reassure him. "

Only one who says earlier than 6m is Spock and he did nearly all of his research and writing in the 60s when we were all being fed choc pudding at 2months and potty trained at 9m!!! HTH

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jessicaandrebeccasmummy · 24/01/2006 10:17

couldnt do controlled crying with becky - she still needs whatever it is she cries for.

Only just started it with Jess who's 18 months and it's working a treat - the sleeping through is more for us than them i think.

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BigBumpBonnie · 24/01/2006 12:07

i've also resigned myself to the fact that ruby will wake for feeds at night as she is just a hungry baby, plain and simple. She goes to sleep as soon as we put her in bed and always goes straight back off after her night time feeds so we are lucky in a lot of ways. Wouldn't have a clue what to do if she didn't

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jessicaandrebeccasmummy · 24/01/2006 12:07

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morningpaper · 24/01/2006 16:21

Is anyone changing their babies in the night still? We often need a nappy change at night (even in disposables) because she wets through otherwise. I see how heavy it is and decide but probably 50% of the time I am still changing her.

Mine wakes and feeds and goes back down again - 15 - 30 minutes I reckon. 2 or 3 times a night.

(By the way Dr Benjamin Spock (who is the only one recommending a 3 month start) was the first childcare guru but is now thought rather 'primitive' - understandably as he did write 50 years ago!)

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morningpaper · 24/01/2006 16:24

Mine is generally dropping off now between 7 and 8, which is GREAT - she starts getting tired and shouty/cry-y and either falls asleep in her cot, or breastfeeding, or with daddy walking her around, or sucking dummy, or cuddling or (if crabby) in my Maya wrap sling, which really seems to calm her, which is fabbie. She doesn't have just one way of falling asleep yet!

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Jockey · 24/01/2006 17:04

Hi sorry not posted for a bit. We've had the dreaded chickenpox in the house, but luckily baby hasn't caught it! No time to think about weaning or anything like that - too busy slapping calamine lotion on and tending to 6 year old madam's every need. People were right when they said this one would have to bring herself up (poor neglected mite!). Good luck to all who are weaning though - can't believe how time flies.

That wrap sling thingy sounds a good idea as I'm still carrying baby around much of the day. She only snoozes for about 20 minutes at a time - too much noise in the house, especially at weekends!

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mawbroon · 24/01/2006 19:09

I considered very carefully before trying the pick up/put down thing also feeling that DS was crying because he needed something. What he needed was sleep! I started keeping a detailed chart of exactly how long he was sleeping, and some days it was as little as 10 hours out of 24. That is way too little sleep and sleep is SO important at any age. Believe me, I tried everything to get him to sleep - cuddling, feeding, singing, rocking, going out in the car, going out in the pram, using his swing, wheeling the pram up and down etc etc. It seemed as though I was spending all day trying to get him to sleep with no success.

Today, after 10 hours sleep overnight (with a short feed after 6 hours) he has napped during the day for four and a half hours and the only time he has cried today was when I was heating up the EBM for DH to feed to him (obviously not quick enough for DSs liking!) This included our trip to the baby clinic where normally he howls the place down because he is exhausted.

Tonight, there has been no crying, he was put straight down in his cot and he whimpered for less than a minute. This is the first time EVER that this has happened!

I know it seems to be a bit controversial, but it is certainly working for me, and more importantly my DS, so far.

MB

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SusiS · 24/01/2006 19:48

they are all so different!!!
dd gets her nightbottle at 6; well she always splits it: has half of it, is full and gets sleepy - then i change the nappy and put her in her nightclothes and she gets the other half and gets even sleepier; and by 7pm we've put her to bed - we try her to still be sort of awake. works for us! - then when i go to bed (10-11) she'll get a dreamfeed; she takes about 4oz and last night she slept through till 6am!!! (with a brief wakeup call at 3am, but the dummy was enough) - so far so good

we did the pick up/ put down thingy with ds and it worked for us!! we don't rush in though at the first cry; give it 2 min - then 5 then 10 - you soon understand to read their cries. and soon you'll learn to distinguish between being upset, in pain or just overtired.

i do agree though that at this early stage they only cry if they really need something. so i do go and try to find out and don't mind feeding at night. -
but i am refusing to feed on 'demand' as such anymore. since yesterday i try to stick to 3 hours at least inbetween feeds. there were a few tears and lots of games and distraction but she's much better today. i hope that once she goes longer she feeds more and then goes longer still. well, that's the theorie anyways

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SusiS · 24/01/2006 19:49

oh, did i tell you that mil moved in for the week

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morningpaper · 24/01/2006 20:09

SusiS: GOOD LUCK! Rather you than me.

Mawbroon: Don't worry too much about how many hours sleep etc. Mine sleeps on average between 10-12 every 24 hours - same as my first. It's confusing because they change so quickly from needing a LOT of sleep and suddenly needing much less about this age.

Also moaning / whinging all day is quite normal - just an indicator of being a baby rather than anything lacking.

(Someone with a baby the same age as mine said she went to her Health Visitor last week and said 'My baby isn't sleeping all day anymore - is something wrong?' and got a wry smile and a very sarcastic reply )

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Moomin · 24/01/2006 20:11

mawbroon - hope you didn't think i was being all norris cole with you, telling you your business! just repeating what i'd heard & read

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mawbroon · 24/01/2006 20:34

Not at all Moomin! The funny thing about Norris Cole is that he's mostly right!!

Anyway - DS is still asleep! That's been 1hr 45mins!!

Won't be posting for a while as away to Holland tomorrow for a week. DH's Grandfather is in hospital there.

Will catch up with all the goss when I get back

MB

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