June 08 - 79 days (and counting) til Christmas, has Deb started her shopping yet?!

[KnittingisbetterthanTherapy]

Thought we should update the thread!

neenz Much easier to do the father christmas thing than not. If you tell them that father christmas hasn't brought them any presents then they'll think they've been naughty (school age) or if you tell them he doesn't exist and they tell there friends then you won't make any friends in the school playground! DD1(9) did mention a few weeks ago that she thinks I'm father christmas - told her if she doesn't beleive she won't get any presents which shut her up!

Amber DOes Luke like the cats? If he does and you really do want to get rid of them do it as soon as possible so he doesn't resent the babies for his loss of the cats.

Good point Going - Luke LOVES them

My boys still believe but I think they will get a rude awakening when they start school in the UK, don't suppose there are many 10 year old boys who still believe? Rolf? Children here get the Christkind(Christchild) instead of fc so there has been no-one to tell them(yet).

Isn't the Chilean miner rescue emotional?

Neenz, sorry forgot to tell you that you are doing a great job with the twins and Daniel. Liek you say, it's a good job he's so good. Will the twins be going to a playgroup after Christmas? A morning or two with just you and Daniel might be a lifesaver.

Sorry Neenz - I'm (unsurprisingly) with everyone else on the Santa is magical view! I don't think a little childhood magic is comparable to lying at all. When we were little we used to have to wait for my dad to go down and check that Santa had been and gone (a clever ruse by my parents to get to stay in bed a bit longer I think). I don't remember feeling resentful at all once I found out the truth and was quite happy to keep up the pretence for my younger siblings. In fact, even when we all knew, we took great delight in still waking my dad up to check for Santa. He was too nervous about accusing us of being 'at it' in case one of us really did still believe .

I know it gets harder as children get older and start asking questions and there's the whole thing about Santa being better to them than someone who's parents can't afford much, and of course if you believe in God there's a whole other reason why Christmas is magical, but still, I love a bit of Santa!

Am still recovering from the shock of Deb posting on a Christmas thread - in October!!!

Deb my boys still believe in Father Christmas. I think that deep down DS1 knows the presents are from us, but he isn't ready to admit to it.

I LOVE the whole FC thing. He always comes down the same chimney (so he doesn't get stuck in a woodburner!) so we leave his mince pies and whiskey on the right mantel, and the presents from FC have special gift tags.

Deb, it depends on the school I think - one school I taught at in Y6 quite a number of the kids still believed. I think they were starting to think it wasn't true but didn't really want to accept it which was lovely. They did ask me if I believed and I went along with it - one of the advantages of being a primary teacher is that you get to be a kid again, and believing in Santa is part of that .

I can't wait for the boys to be old enough to understand what it's all about - suspect that this year A will still be too young!

Right, off to tidy up before The Apprentice.

just marking my place

I don't like to be predictable Domesticgoddess, thought I'd surprise you

Knitting - one of the very, very best things about teaching Nursery was Christmas

Rolf - thanks, I'm glad your ds1 still believes too.

I had a good phone call with my MW today. She told me to ignore everything the consultant said yesterday. Generally I am feeling happier about it all, but still a bit that it happened at all.

Neenz I have never met any adults who have had issues with their parents lying about FC. However I do remember a boss of mine telling his team that as a child his father promised himself never to lie to his children, so when my boss asked about FC he responded: "Son, work it out for yourself", and that was the end of that bit of magic.

Amber I think you might just be having pregnancy induced stresses regarding the cats. Knitting has two cats and 2 small children. Having visited on a number of occasions I have never felt the compulsion to call either the RSPCA, the NSPCC, or Kim & Aggie. In the scheme of things once you have a pre schooler and two toddlers, the amount of additional mess created by two cats is going to be negligible. It will be fine.

Oh, and Dewin, thanks for thinking of me last night . V kind of you. Actually on the phone to the mw she was trying to work out who I had seen and she blurted out "was he black or white", which I thought was v funny after our pussy footing around last night.

Lol spider - I think Kim & Aggie would have a field day in my house!

Glad to hear ur MW was supportive.

Amber, I agree with spider and if Luke adores them then it would be hard on him too. Our boys love our cats and they were great for Alex to learn about "being gentle" when M was born.

Glad the mw was helpful Spider, and Kim and Aggie would love my house too. It was dd's birthday yesterday and the tv currently has cardboard boxes opened up all over the floor so her zhu zhu hamsters can run about if they excape their 'city'. All of which makes me wonder why I bothered buying a house with a separate downstairs room for a playroom. Although I am actually sitting in it now with pc while they are being noisy in the tv room, so not a complete waste.

Amber when I have had a rough day with the kids I go downstairs and my cat curls up on my knee and purrs, suddenly I feel sane again!! Agree with the others too that the mess of several children will make the mess the cats create seem negligible .

Spider thank God for good midwives!! Do you think she'll follow it up? When I went for my booking-in appointment with Liam, knowing nothing at all, I told the midwife I had one book on pregnancy, written by an obstetrician. She told me to throw it away and buy one written by a midwife instead .

Those cats do make a hell of a lot of mess but I get the the kids will be making more. Luke is NOT gentle with them in the slightest - God help the twins!!!

It's a bit mad the the MW said ignore the consultant isn't it Spider? They should all be singing from the same hymn sheet really I guess. I think you should change consultants just in case you should need them at some point - who does the delivery the MW or the consultant? Would the consultant over rule the MW during the birth? I guess you would over rule the lot of them! Can you change? The guy sounds like a dick head.

Amber - he isn't my assigned consultant, and who looks after me will all depend on who is on call the day that I need it. I assume because it's a VBAC that a consultant will be in the background but keeping a closer eye on me than a normal delivery, with the majority of the care from the mw's unless interventions are needed.

I agree though they should all be singing from the same songsheet, which I did point out to the consultant on Tuesday when he was contradicting the mw's views on sweeps.

Systems - I remember from P's birth that occasionally you got the vibe that the mw's hold the drs in a certain amount of contempt . Biscuits - I'm sure it cuts both ways, and of course you aren't an Obgyn so that must be different!!

spider Obs & Gyn are a breed unto themselves, as are midwives. They are very 'apart' from all the other specialities and we don't see much of them! I'm sure there are lots of fantastic ones, but also some nutters in both camps I think. The consultant that you saw (if he is indeed a consultant) sounds like a loon (same camp as Knitting's GP perhaps )

I had a MW appointment on Tues, still head down, but OP at the moment, lots of leaning over pilates ball for me.

C has been v cute at teatime tonight, we were having scampi, and she kept holding up each piece and saying 'is it a scamper?' then munching it down. She's very challenging at the moment though, I think she can tell that something is afoot, and there's a lot of 'not Daddy, just Mummy' action, which is wearing me out.

Lol Biscuits - v pissed off with my GP at the mo if you saw FB : (

My NCT friend who is due the same week as spider said her dd is becoming more clingy and difficult. Not something I experienced as A didn't have a clue - he was just fascinated with my belly button!

DH is making me watch giant squids being dissected. Yuk.

I would say P is getting less clingy at the moment, but this is probably because he started pre-school last month and I think this has encouraged his independence (i.e. got him used to me leaving him and then coming back again). He wasn't clingy to begin with though thankfully. I say this because last night when I went out to pilates, I just got a cheery "Bye, bye Mummy" rather than the usual wailing "Mummy, Mummy" at the front door.

He knows something about there being a baby in my tummy, but I am fairly convinced that he does not actually know what the implications of this will be in a few weeks.

Knitting , Happy Birthday to M

Dh is at home so I got a lie-in today. Sadly I was awake for most of it as J seems to have woken up with the devil in him and I could hear,'you naughty boy!' about a million times from the lounge below me. J manically cackling each time he got told off would have kept any mother awake.

I love the 'scampers' Biscuits, thats a keeper! Ds1 used to call fire engines fire makers and we remind him of that every single time we see one. I do think its starting to get a bit old for him though as now he just sighs and ignores us.

Knitting - hope you are all having a happy day.

Sybil - when I get a lie in at the weekend, I have the same trouble with DH and P making an amazing noise! Then DH looks surprised when I come downstairs because I can't sleep.

Knitting - hope you are ahaving a nice birthday with Michael.

Spider - Luke is the same about 'babies in mummy's tummy' but clearly has no idea what that means and might even think I'm pretending as he often pretends to take them out and thrown them away I will be taking notes when yours arrive on how Peter deals with them!

Sybil - lie-ins never are the same any more are they (not that I ever get one). However I will make you as I have my sister's baby's christening tomorrow and I will get a proper lie in with no disturbances as I will be in Manchester! Also looking forward to having my breakfast cooked for me - yumbo!!!

Just finished watching my sky+ This is England '86 episodes. Did anyone see them - blimey not for the faint hearted