Only 18 incompetent teachers sacked in 40 years

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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/10464617.stm

That is totally unacceptable. We have been putting teachers before children for too long when it comes to teaching standards. Simultaneously we have been putting the "rights" of children ahead of the teachers' ability to maintain discipline.

Thankfully academies and free schools will break the stranglehold of the teaching unions and local education authorities, and introduce real competition and accountability into the state school system.

Our local council has taken quite radical action recently Redeployed staff 'shell-shocked'

scientology could end up being an interesting field of enquiry, veering quickly from religion to the field of politics

I think I may redeploy myself.

seb1, wow that does sound drastic. Presumably the teachers can't be that bad or they wouldn't be redeployed elsewhere.

Re: teachers "moving on" instead of being sacked:

I think its perfectly possible to be a good teacher in one setting, but not-so-good in another. Not all classes/children need the same approach. EG they need different levels of stimulation and engagement.

A "nice" MC schol may have compliant kids but demanding parents, in another school this may be reversed. Different skills needed I reckon.

haven't read all this thread but sadly I'm not suprised and know that this isn't restricted to teaching. Lots of public sector organisations (including NHS) have policies in place that make it so difficult to sack poor performers that they just don't bother and basically hope that they'll leave of their own accord. As everyone is so focused on efficiency savings, they'd do well to start by reveiwing the HR policies in these types of organisations to make sure that employers get value for money from their employees.

Quoting daisymiller Sun 04-Jul-10 20:23:32

I don't know which era you're talking about! I started teaching in 1982 and we didn't just set lessons from books or work from 8-5pm. We took work home and it was the norm for a school to be buzzing during the first week of the holidays, as teachers went into work to plan lessons for the next term. I ran revision classes during the Easter holidays and took pupils on school trips during the holidays. If anything, teachers worked longer hours than they do today, because they were doing a job they enjoyed and didn't feel regulated and monitored with every breath they took. Good will was lost with the so-called reforms of 1988.

Quite honestly, you sound like one of the younger breed of teacher, who doesn't seem to realise that some of us over 50 still know what we're doing. We've grown tired of new initiatives, because reinventing the wheel lost its appeal some years ago. Research has shown that professional development for teachers with some years of service is woefully neglected. Ageism rules!

I have never said that teacher's over 50 don't know what they are doing. I said that for some older teachers the job is not the same as the one they signed up for.

The teacher I referred to was in their late fifties back in the mid nineties so I guess they started teaching in the mid to late 60s.

I was in school in the seventies and early eighties and honestly I cannot remember a lesson that did not come from a text book and there were no revision classes. Maybe I went to a poor school, the kind that the colleague I spoke to taught in. You clearly taught in a school ahead of its time.

I do enjoy my job, I don't feel over regulated or monitored.

My days of being a younger breed of teacher have long gone - sadly.

I know that in the time that I have been teaching my workload has dramatically increased. Some of that is down to promotions etc but much more seems to be expected of the standard classroom teacher.

Unless of course I was just crap- which as I am still struggling with my lesson planning is a possibility.

maxpower,

As a matter of interest, how does the private sector deal with incompetence? I'm not talking about people during the first few months, who have maybe been appointed to an unsuitable job, but people with many years service, who have passed various checks, but are then seen as incompetent. The competency procedures for teachers have been agreed by ACAS. My experience is that schools are unable/unwilling to put support in place, as outlined in the procedures. They know that they would stand a good chance of losing if they were taken to an Employmnent Tribunal, so are quite happy to accept a compromise agreement.

How do you define incompetence anyway? I sometimes think teachers and comedians have much in common. Both groups are put on the spot and judged on performance. Some comedians have others rolling in the aisles with laughter, but leave me cold. Others make me smile, while others don't get their brand of humour.

There is no "right" way to teach. I do not believe there is a teacher anywhere who engages every single pupil in the class. My own DCs have hated a couple of teachers whom everybody else thought was brilliant and, conversely, have had good relationships with teachers everybody else hated. My DD owes her A at Music GCSE to a teacher she moaned about constantly and bullied her to work.

A teacher only has to get on the wrong side of a pupil whose parent complains and/or to teach in a way which isn't to the head's liking, to be threatened with competency procedures.

I looked at a student the wrong way in Tesco after school one night, and got a bollocking the next day; never spoke to the girl or her mum out of school after that, I just blanked them every time I saw them.

Daisy - just do cult recognition / warning signs perhaps?

Thank your lucky stars the mum wasn't a governor!

I would just like to point out that I have a Third in a degree subject which isn't my main teaching area - mostly because I lost interest in my first year at Uni & unofficially transferred to Getting Falling Down Drunk A Lot.

Somehow, ten years later, I managed to blag my way on to a PGCE in English. My subject knowledge has always been acknowledged to be excellent.

I'm perfectly willing to be told that it doesn't work like that in Science, say, but you really aren't going to dramatically improve teaching standards by demanding Firsts all round!

Higher status & better morale would go a long way. People who feel shit all the time are usually shit teachers.

Deal with workplace bullying - from kids & from SLG (personally I've never found it's the kids who make me miserable at work...) & then let those of us who are actually good at what we do get on with it.

By all means make it easier to get rid of the truly incompetent teachers, but let's not forget that most schools quietly lose a couple every year - temporary contracts which aren't renewed, people who are none too gently persuaded to jump before they're pushed - frankly, it'd take an exceptional level of bloody-mindedness to cling on long enough to actually be sacked.

raven, I wish I were eloquent enough to write such a post. I agree with you absolutely. I happen to have a degree from a "good" university, so I would be allowed on to a PGCE, but it's all the bits I learned in between that have made me the teacher I am.

There may have been only 18 teachers struck off by the GTCE, but schools have been getting rid of people who can't cope. I would like to think that the process has been relatively humane for most of them. They don't need to be "named and shamed" on the GTCE website.

I've been reading about the history of Denise McKillop, the teacher who was struck off and featured in the Panorama programme. I don't know the woman and am a bit reluctant to judge, but she seems a bit lulu and obviously feels aggrieved about the way she was treated. I find it curious that the main accusations against couldn't be proved, but she was still struck off. No wonder she's bitter...or is there something else behind it all? She obviously thought she had a case or she wouldn't have tried to fight the system. Either way I don't think she can be trusted as a reliable observer of what's going on in some schools.

This is a prelude to something, but I dread to thinkl what the agenda is. Whatever it is, I fear that children will be the losers while education is treated as a political football.

I thought Panorama was very weak - they didn't define incompetence well - shouting and disorganised paperwork; glad they don't come round to my house when trying to roust my 14yo ds in the mornings, or look at my study. Yes, class control can be an issue, but again, without adequate sanctions available, it can be hard (p5 Friday Year 11 GCSE RE with 33 kids in a too small classroom, one kid stoned, and all of them bigger and taller than me - like to see the Panorama journo deal with that), and some kids will never toe the line in any case.

Oh no I missed this ( have been working without a break since half five this morning - hopefully not incompetantly )

I may catch on i player later.

I do think excessive workload at crisis points can be a factor in incompetance. While these crisis points are brief they are very intense and very few teachers are at their best when knackered and stressed. I taught today on 4 hours sleep - full day of teaching - all bouncy key stage three classes all doing something different. Tomorrow I guess I will be coping on a similar amount of sleep but have to teach GCSE and A Level.