so will i be working until i'm 80 then?

[southeastastra]

wouldn't be surprised

expatinscotland, but that's what they want you to do. They are constantly putting on more news about such things. That would be the easy way out for them, if us so-called feckless scroungers all joined Exit International. The elites won't be joining it anytime soon, but they will tell us what a wise choice it is.

I can't imagine ever wanting to give up work. I am in my early thirties, I imagine I will work til I drop.

I know plenty of people who are still working beyond retirement age - my FIL is 74 and still works, so does MIL. They have friends who gave up work in their early sixties, whose brains have atrophied. Work keeps you young imo.

Well then, that's good, claig, because that's what I want to do.

My adulthood has been mostly impoverished and will likely continue to be.

I have no fear of death and no desire to live to so-called old age. I never have.

Others do, that is their lookout. But I want to check out rather than freeze in the dark myself.

BeenBeta - I think there is quite a high chance that at some point a UK Government will change the law to allow them to reduce accrued pension rights, maybe even for those already claiming them.

expatinscotland, from your posts everyone can see that you have real spirit. Even in old age you will be giving the Tories hell. We need fighters like you to help the rest of us. Join a party and make sure things get better, even if it is New Labour. You might help them get on the right track.

I'm actually inclined to do so, claig.

My finger was on the button last night and we're going to a BBQ tomorrow at the home of our former landlord and friends.

The Glaswegian child of Irish immigrants, I'm sure once the water of life is flowing through his veins, ol' Danny will get my hand clicking the button .

the Tories better watch out

TheCoalition - I think you are right and it is ony a matter of time before public sector pensions being paid out now are actually reduced by law.

I know also that companies that pay in the contributions to company schemes have been angling to do that for years as well. In effect walking away from their pension liability by hook or by crook. The Pension Regulator was put in place to stop it happening during takeover bids and has just come to an agreement with BA on its huge underfunded liability that is oviously a major issue if it ties up with Iberia.

Unfunded pension liabilities are just debts by another name and both the Govt and firms would love to walk away from that debt.

One aspect of retiring that never seems to be considered is how many years you have worked before you draw your pension. In my opinion pensions should be personalised.

If you started work in a manual job at 16 and then worked until you are 60 I think you deserve to retire at 60. However, if you finished school, had a gap year, went to uni, went travelling, did a masters, did an internship, worked for 5 year, took two lots of maternity leave followed by a career break, work in a professional non physically demanding role then it would be right if you expected to retire later.

The real difficulty is the way the goal posts keep moving which is making it impossible to make an informed decision. I am in my late 40s and am now fully paid up for a full state pension in my own right. However, if I work for another twenty years what benefits will I acrue? My DH suddenly found his final salary pension scheme abolished last year after paying in for 24 years, who knows what he'll get at retirement age. I have also paid in to a final salary pension scheme for nearly 25 years. It has an online facility for calculating the benefits of paying in extra, only it can't accommodate those who change their working hours over their working lives(mainly women)or tell you the impact of promotion. So my last pension projection from work was based on my posion 3 grades lower and with less hours. Not much use.

An enormous issue regarding pensions is the lack of trust between citizens and state. When I started work pension age for women was 60, I now have no idea when I will be able to draw my pension. I would love to pay extra contributions into my final salary pension scheme and am lucky enough to be able to afford to, but at least if I invest in ISAs or property I know I have control over my money.

LadyLapsang - you are right about the lack of trust and no one can be sure what they will get. A personalised pension would be a god idea but unlikely to ever happen as some people woudl get nothing as a result of sheer bad luck, having children, illness, job loss.

When I was 19 I got a letter from the National Insurance people inviting me to make more voluntary NI contributions as I had had a series of temporary jobs that year before university.

I knew there and then that it would be stupid to pay more NI and that I was determined to minimise the amount of NI I would pay over my life as I would never be able to guess what I would get back.

At the moment I have made 8 years of NI contributions because of careeer breaks and self employment and education. I am very unlikely to ever draw a UK state pension as a result - but I knew that from the start. NI is just tax and there is no pot of invested money to pay me a 'personal pension' from the state.

I invest my own money like you.

DP has been paying into a voluntary pension scheme, I don't know what it's called, where the company matches his contributions, for ages. Am so scared that when he does retire, there won't be anything left....

The papers yesterday suggested retirement age going up a year every 5 years which seemed fairly reasonable. But I can't see how they can allow for those in manual jobs who can't continue even past 60 and there is no alternative job for them. I also wondered about the v stressful positions (SWs?) who wouldn't cope mentally with that longer term.

I totally agree with the men/women retirement age being the same.

I agree about manual work and stressful work and whether people have the capacity to do that kind of work at an older age. However, given the age that many people are living to now I wonder whether people need to start thinking in terms of having several careers.

Met a very interesting man the other day. He had worked for several banks as a branch manager. He had a company pension from both but had reached the age of 60 and had started working as a section manager in Boots. Less stressful, no responsibility, flexble too as he liked to take extended holidays travelling but he liked to work and had a lot to offer. No doubt he could manage the whole shop if he wanted to.

Before he became a bank manager he had travelled and worked as a manager in the tourist industry so could speak French and Italian and no doubt could bring that skill to play if he wanted in another job.

My Dad retired at 63 after spending his life as a farmer. He was just physically not up to it any longer. He has no pension but the state peson and his own savings. He could work if he wanted to and does a lot still in the community as bell ringer, parish counciler and occassional hearse driver as well as village gardner and park keeper.

Until recently, my My FIL delivered high end luxury cars for a living. He is retired frm teh local authority and being older there is no chance of joy riding and he is very customer friendly and responsble. Ideal for his employer and he likes driving too.

It's quite difficult to change careers though. I tried to change & going via JC they just pushed me into the same jobs even when I wanted basic ones in other fields. This was with the career advice thing too.

There is also the ageist attitude by many employers.

Company pensions would get difficult too changing sectors.

All stuff that needs sorting nationally by the Gov

What happens if you lose your job when you're 64. I think you would struggle to find another job?

"What happens if you lose your job when you're 64. I think you would struggle to find another job?"

The same as happens now if you lose your job before the official retirement age. You're classed as unemployed or a job seeker and things go from there.

Well yes, I know that. But whats the point about denying them a pension when the chances are they will end up on job seekers' allowance getting hassled by the job centre to jump through hoops and take a shelf stacking job in Tesco.

This whole thing is a persuasion exercise - the government needs a LOT more of us to make our own provision for old age than is currently the case.

1990-ish ago the rules changed on private pensions, including the option to contract out of SERPS (S2P they call it now). Portable stakeholder pensions also came in. The message then was 'be in control of at least part of your post-retirement income rather than relying on HM Gov to provide all of it.' Now, I would suggest, the underlying message is... 'if you want to retire earlier than 66, (68, 70), start saving'

Doesn't help anyone currently 50-60 years old looking at a 66 retirement age in 2016. Doesn't help anyone who doesn't have the spare cash to build up a retirement fund. But younger people, if they can put a few quid away each month, should look at what's happening and do so.

LOL at this. In my profession you are old when you are 40 and definatly over the hill at 45.
Who is going to employ all these older people? Is it Tesco again?

are you a model, FairyMum?

What is Exit International?

No Expat, I work in investment banking. Its a very ageist profession partly because the hours are long. You either burn out or are made redundant at some point. Its hard to keep up. I fully expect to be made redundant at some point before I am 50.

I think its great that people will be able to work longer, but I think government then has a lot of work to do to change attitudes of businesses and enable people to work. Older people might need flexible working, reduced hours perhaps etc This government has already started attacking regulations Labour introduced. I am sure they are going to go after flexible working very soon.

That's sad, Fairy, especially because, well, investment banking could really use the wisdom of experience, IYKWIM.

IKWYM

FairyMum - I always thought the lifespan for an investment bankers' career was short because of two reasons:

• the crazy pace and hours
• the extravagant pay that allows many to retire early and in complete comfort