im so anxious about threats to cut ctc...

[em83]

god i feel so depressed about the threatened cut to ctc, i have been following the news religiously about this new emergency budget, and have just read an updat which was posted tonigha 22.10 which states that incomes £30.000 or over will not be entitled to ctc

im so pissed off with this and feel so anxious

No cuts have been made yet, a lot of this is speculation.

We did not have tax credits until Labour got in and we have now voted them out. I know for some families they are a lifeline, but they were originally meant to encourage people into work and lift others out of poverty. How many of the people criticising their demise on this forum can say they are truly at risk of poverty if they are phased out?

I am sick and fed up of hearing the phrase "if ... it's not worth me working" which is effectively what at least one poster's husband is saying, or threats that people will make it a point to earn no more than £25,000. Benefits are not an automatic entitlement and we all pay for them; lots of us look down on so-called 'chavs' for their attitude to entitlement but some of us behave in exactly the same way.

I'm not sure that a family could manage easily on £17k without tax credits, but it would depend on what you pay each month in rent/gas/elec etc.

The net pay on that figure comes to around £1135.

Assuming our monthly bills, which I would reckon are probably about 'average', then that would leave around £300 each month for food, cleaning and household goods, clothes, days out, haircuts, home and car maintenence.

I've left out mobile phones, any credit repayments, holidays, eating out, nights out, hobbies, magazines, sky tv etc as no doubt such things are deemed a luxury.

I'm not saying it's not doable, but I wonder if I'd bother my arse working 40 hours a week to live like that. I guess it would depend on whether or not there was any prospect of things getting better.

How do you know who NEEDS the CTC or not - surely it depends on number of kids, childcare costs etc. Mortgage costs? Council tax? The cut off is arbitary if the other costs are high.

And sorry I am not slogging my guts out 5 days pw if all I am actually doing is earning to pay for childcare. What is the point? I may as well be a sahm and do my own childcare instead of contributing to the economy through income tax and NI.

CTC were set up to support working parents. Their demise is a kick in the teeth to middle income voters who are traditionally part of the Tory support. I hope people remember this next election.

BTW can we get away from this idea that everyone complaining has all these luxury goods? Aside from a mobile phone - our household has NONE of the things mentioned in this thread.

shongololo, there are lots of people who now rely on tax credits because circumstances outside of their control have meant they cannot work/have to reduce hours/have lost their jobs.

These are people who are/have been working and paying into the system too. They are not 'chavs' as you put it, just ordinary people in unfortunate circumstances.

It can happen to anyone you know. Death, illness, disability, redundancy. The fickle finger of fate is hanging over us all.

There but for the grace of God and all that.

Wubblybubbly - please read my post again. I do not call ANYONE chavs. I know all about being in unfortunate circumstances because I have lost my job but, being brought up staunchly working class, I am not going to become reliant on handouts meant for people worse off than me. I am just having a little rant because for the fifth time today I have heard someone saying "it's not worth me working", and not including on this forum. Don't believe in God but I totally agree with your sentiment, BTW.

shongolo can I just point out, before it becomes urban myth, that no-one in the public sector gets paid according to the number of kids you have either.

You're probably right in that those f us on £40/month ctc wont miss it too much, but add it to the proposed tax on cb (if it happens) vat rises and whatever else they bring on then it starts to become significant.

Whats more it is all very well pontificating about luxuries we dont need. In one sense you are right but these luxuries are also the staples for keeping people in jobs nowadays. There is a whole telecommunications industry that didnt exist on such scale 15years ago.

if people stop being able to buy such things then that means people out of a job, a deepening recession and worsening public finances.

Tourism is alos an industry now. 25- 30 years ago it was the manufacturing base that has now largely disappeared.

so be aware when you lecture about people having only what they need that the consequences of this mindset, for a consumerist economy, could be dire.

Which is probably one of the (many) reasons our economy has become so messed up - it is essentially dependent to a worrying extent upon people consuming stuff they don't need, filling up landfills and getting themselves into hundreds and even thousands of pounds of debt in order to keep industries afloat upon which other people's jobs depend.

headache.

glad i'm not a politician trying to sort all of this out!

remember that you are entitled to subtract any giving, etc that you make from the 'total income'...
whatever your income, a cut will hurt, but those who earn £30K have 1/3 more coming in than my family...
remember also, that (and I know everything is relative) all of us are within the top 5% (30K is top 1%) globally... tinyurl.com/m1lk

CTC were never meant to be for 'less well off' people though - they were there to encourage people to work FFS! To make it meaningful financially. It's not about entitlement, it's about contribution.

The working tax credit element was for those on lower incomes to support them working but the childcare element was introduced as recognition that childcare IS expensive and to encourage people to work, it is a contribution.

Like many families stuck on benefits who don't find it viable to work, many better off families will find if the CTC and CB is stopped then their childcare costs won't make it worthwhile for both parents to work, or one if lone parent.

I couldn't live on 17,000 without my tax credits, I would have to go back to supervising a nightclub (they have been begging me to go back). What tax credits has done for me is enable a career change I was earning a good wage supervising a nightclub and would have been manager by now if I had gone back from maternity leave. However I really don't wanna go back because I wouldn't see my dp, and I quit while pg as it is a dangerous job if there is no female door lady available a trained supervisor has to step in. I quit because I was slower while pg and someone held a broken glass to my neck, dp begged me not to go into work again.

So I am sadly using my tax credits to study at home and get a safer career. Redundancy in my dp work were done according to how many children.

I really think childcare costs and family tax credits need to be separated.

As a middle earner we do rely on the childcare help (which is still actually less each month than we pay back in tax)

I am more than happy for them to take the £545. In fact I am more than happy once they are in school for them to take all tax credits and child benefit. It is just the childcare we struggle with which is a relatively short term and productive use of benefits / tax allowances (whatever you want to call it).

Perhaps one answer might be focusing increased payments for the first 5 years for all parents (to support to work through reduced childcare costs or to stay home). Then once in school they are ended or reduced depending on your income.

This of course only applies to families where no one needs to stay at home past school age to look after the children. That should be a completely different scenario and set of rules.

Agree with Peppa that support for childcare is an investment. It means women go back to work after mat leave which means they continue to contribute taxes, are much more likely to save for a pension and it also keeps people employed in the childcare sector. People with no pension plans and who might disappear from the tax-system for many years is a lot more expensive than family tax credits.

State benefits should be about ensuring children are not growing up in poverty. The fact that 90% of families in this country can claim these benefits does not seem right. These benefit should be available for the lowest earner, eg poorest 1/3 to 1/4 of families not the majority,

We can't claim it but I just looked at the online calculator and was that a family where the DH earns £65k and the mum is a SAHM could claim anything at all.

I don't think someone earning 65K is eligible for family tax credits. My BIL is earning 50K and he says his income is to high to make anyn claims.

I am not at all though. I am more at the childcare prices in the UK. I grew up in Sweden where I could have 3 if not 4 children in FT childcare for the price of one in the UK. Would it be better if we made the cost of a chiuldcare place cheaper? I pay 1200 a month for a child in FT nursery. Of course if you have more than one child and both parents want to work, then 65K is no longer a huge income.

I think this government is really taking from families who haven't got very much at all. Both me and DH are earning much more than the salaries of 35-40 discussed here and we won't really notice the budget at all. It is definatly not hitting people who could afford to pay more and I include myself in that category.

Peppapig -childcare costs don't stop once they reach school age - I am faced with the prospect of earning nothing in August, effectively, to pay for childcare so I can go to work. My kids are 10 and 6 and too young to be left home alone.

Wordsmith I see your point there. However I am guessing averaged out over the year it will probably be cheaper than fll time nursery care?

I pay at the moment (for 2 DC's) £1400 a month in nursery costs. When they are at school it will be more like £400 a month for breakfast / after school. On a middle income that is managable - £1400 a month is not!

I am not saying that people on a low income shouldnt continue to get the support - just perhaps people on a middle / higher income could get support during the first 5 years.

Fairymum - yes great idea. Subsidised childcare would be great. Or tax free childcare.

One issue I thought of with that though is it reduces childcare costs for everyone. So the parents earning £200k a year get the benefit too. Or a SAHM could put a child in and get the reduced cost.

p.s. I am not saying SAHM's should not get benefits or put their children into nurseries just if reduced childcare was a way of supporting parents to work (and pay subsuquent taxes)

fairymum, I just checked the calculator, the benefits don't get phased out until £68k even if only one parent is working.

Has anyone heard anything of when the cuts would be effective from (please let it be April 2011 & not immediately).

Has anyone heard anything of when the cuts would be effective from (please let it be April 2011 & not immediately).

I don't see how you get this from the calculator as I only get child benefit when I put that through for an income of 60K

It depends on childcare costs and number of children too.

Jumpy - probably effective immediately I would expect.