im so anxious about threats to cut ctc...

[em83]

god i feel so depressed about the threatened cut to ctc, i have been following the news religiously about this new emergency budget, and have just read an updat which was posted tonigha 22.10 which states that incomes £30.000 or over will not be entitled to ctc

im so pissed off with this and feel so anxious

Extremes did lead to extremes, that's true.

vesela, I wonder where you got that from? Have you read what I said?

I'm assuming you're responding to my post to Xenia where I said "you don't think the worldwide recession had any impact on UK finances then?"

Most people accept that there are a number of reasons why we're in the current financial situation, the recession being one of them. I've never said it was the only one. Xenia herself makes that very same point in her later reply.

There are lots of reasons but most people families nations etc save for a rainy day as you can be sure rainy days come. I don't think Labour did anything like enough saving.

I don't disagree Xenia. I think that Labour did rest on their laurels somewhat and continued to spend in the same vein they did when they first came to power. That was clearly a mistake.

Unfortunately, our family has no leeway for saving. We manage a couple of months then something conks out and we're back to zero.

However, that clearly wasn't the case with the government and they ought have put something aside in the good times.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with xenia!BUT saving has beconme a bit uncool in our society and all the trappings of tvs cars etc etc are expected somehow aswell as holidays and the latest bloody everything!The line between need and want is so seriously blurred we don't know the differnece anymore.I have had times when I have had more and times when seriously skint but I live the same way mostly and if I really want something unneccesary I WAIT

Things go in cycles yes - it's capitalism unfortunately.

Noddyholder - think you'll find that lots of people DON'T spend on the things you suggest. We certainly don't, especially since having kids. You would think 2 decently paid professional jobs would give us that but unfortunately not.

We have no real credit apart from a car loan. haven't had foreign holiday since we had kids, or any holiday this year. Neither of us has designer ore even very new stuff, we have a modest terrace house. Yes we have 2 cars but only because we both have jobs with 70ml round trip commutes and yes have tried to get ones nearer home but we can't and public transport doesn't go there.

It makes me laugh that people think everyone is living the high life.

These threads are starting to get on my nerves. The issue is that there is a massive misconception around tax credits.

Look at the adverts that were run on the television: They were encouraging you to claim Tax Credits, saying "It's your money..."

Now, people are saying that they are a benefit, intended to stop people running aground in times of trouble.

It just isn't true. They are a means-tested income top-up. Semantics? No. They are not a benefit, only to be applied for if you hit a crisis. The government fully intended every family with an income below £55k to receive money each and every week.

So, to all those people who say that people should consider their finances when deciding whether they can afford more children - what should be considered?

-Earnings
-Outgoings
-Other income.

Other income includes Tax Credits, because the Government advised people to apply for them.

Anyone considering another child would look at their situation, and consider the sources of income available, etc. Tax credits is one of those.

They can change the threshold, and make less people eligible. But don't start pretending the purposes was to avert a crisis, because it wasn't. It was intended to make life easier & top-up incomes.

We have 3 children under 5, a joint (gross) income of £17k, and a disabled child. We get about £11.5k in CTC/WTC.

I don't think everyone is at all but I do think we have a heightened sense of entitlement that just didn't exist years ago.I hope families aren't dragged down by this but can't see the tories doing other than look after their own and think old values are going to have to return for those who sadly can least afford it.

I guess we'd be much better off, financially, if I could return to work full time.

Well, we'd be able to afford a bigger house and, tbh, I'd rather live in my tiny 2 up, 2 down and spend these years with my DS.

I have no need for a 50 inch LCD TV. The picture is shite, the sound is shite and next week there'll be something better out anyway.

Plus I'm freeing up a job for someone who wants it. I'm all heart me.

Yes, it was a complicated silly system.

Many many years ago people got a higher tax allowance if they had children. that was removed (it usually went to the man anyway) and child benefit came in which has been cheap and universal and worked well and improtantly when it came out was paid to the mother so even if the husband whether a millionaire or a pauper pissed all his income up the wall the mother got the benefit for the children.

The tax credits are silly and complicated and require people to fill in complex forms and are paid to people who earn too much although I've earned little enough to qualify for one penny of them for which in some senses I feel very grateful.

"We have 3 children under 5, a joint (gross) income of £17k, and a disabled child. We get about £11.5k in CTC/WTC. "

I am 99% sure the Government will not remove credit from anyone under about £26k to £30k a year. There is nothing to fear there. Those credits have helped people stay in work who earn a lowish income like £17k. £13k a year is the full time wage on minimum wage.

Isn't there a 16 hours a week problem when people start to work more they lose too much of these credits? Things like that need to be looked at but it's very hard to simply which is what I would prefer, these areas

lou312505 Me and DH recieve a similar amount of CTC/WTC to you and your DP. What will happen to the likes of us? I know everyones saying that there will be no cuts for families earning under 25k but I'm so worried about the budget. I will be relieved when we know whats happening for sure.

I always saw them as a benefit and for the very brief time that we were entitled it never entered my head to claim them.

Why were they introduced at all over say 25k? What made the labour govt think that it was a good iea to suddenly add to a perfectly average income?It is such a ridiculous system.

I don't think it really matters if something is a benefit or a tax allowance. It is all just money and there is no one category which is good and one which is bad. It's a neutral issue which category you put it into.

They are not likely to remove them from those under £26k. I am pretty certain of that. But VAT iwll go up which will not help the poor unless they just spend on food and children's clothes. Stick with rice and potatoes and avoid cakes and you'll avoid VAT I think.

There will be freezing too of benefits and allowances and whether that matters depends on inflation but at least it is not money directly taken

To keep labour in power.

It is a bad state of affairs when people who have what you would think were perfectly good and reasonably paid jobs may have to stop work as they won't be able to afford it!

I totally agree, I work in a school that has quite a few pregnant staff, I am not sure how many of those will return to work.

It's VAT on gas & electric that worries me.

There's been no mention of increasing it from the current 5% but it was a tory government that introduced it and, I believe, wanted to increase to the full 17.5%. I just hope they don't usher it in under some sort of 'green' credentials.

If they cut the tc will it be both types?My friend is a single parent and works but her rent is 850 and her nursey is 800 a month and without TCs she's in trouble but her salary is just about 30k?

I'm sorry, wubblybubbly. There just seems to be so much denial of Labour's role - five out of five Labour leadership candidates state that Labour did nothing wrong - that I tend to jump to conclusions when I see the global recession being blamed.

i just hope that the goverment realise that a family with £30000 and 3 children is worse off than a family with same income but with only 1 child...

Are they Riven? I avoid the papers as much as possible, too depressing.

It seems that the only message is that is that there is no alternative to these sweeping cuts. Funny that, when 2 out of 3 parties disagreed with that prior to the GE, along with a number of respected economists. All of a sudden, despite the figures looking better than expected, the overwhelming message is one of doom and gloom and a life changing time for us all.

It's a relief to hear that there are still some who believe that we don't need to make such swingeing cuts. Not that it will make any difference I suppose.

Because there are two views - spend your way out of a recession or not. No one really knows which works best. I think the spending route is more dangerous.