How do we as a country eliminate 'benefit culture'?

[whomovedmychocolate]

Serious question, not asking for a bunfight but donning teflon knickers nevertheless.

We seem to have got ourselves into a right pickle over this - we have a myriad of benefits - which don't seem to fit together or make logical sense and which seem open ended.

Is this right? Should we say (with obvious exceptions for people who are going to need help forever because of health issues) 'right, we will support you for X months and then you are on your own'?

Should we require people to dispose of any and all assets before providing benefits? This would counter the 'well he has a plasma telly and is receiving JSA' arguments I've heard recently.

What about generations of families who have never worked. What do we do about them then? Do we do intervention stylee retraining for them all, and force them to work?

I'm really interested in the ideas you lot might have because I am finding it very hard to establish the extent of the problem or any solution.

Really?

Thing is, with what happened to us, one child would have cut us off: actually it is indeed ds1 and his SN (not diagnosed until he was 6) that did it for me working.

DS3 has SN also but I have a CM who would take him happily- ds1 is another kettle of fish sadly.

So, nobody should have kids unless they can cope if their child becomes disabled and their husband simultaneously is made redundant which is what happened to us?

birthrate of 3 per annum then.

oi Riven - you talking about me

single mum - tick
on benefits - tick
in 30's - tick
planned/had children with man who was working - tick

(and yes that would be a bad thing, for all the pensioners for a start..... and yes of course people should try to save but right now there arer many like my parents who did and suffered collapsed or otherwise* pension funds so are not in anyw way guilty)

*Their employer was solfd tyo an Amercian company who then treated, quite legally, the funds as assets to clear debts arsing I undersytand from asbestos claims in the US.

Of course, my parents should ahve seen that coming yes? The worst thing was the pensions weren't even with the same company: it happened twice over.

Why would I want to move to Monaco? That's nuts. So what you are saying is you want no very large companies making money for the UK economy?

Does air pollution make the sky all pretty up there in the clouds?

would it be so great if we could predicate every possible worst scenario in life

Well I do think at the very least all benefits should be means tested. For example my MiL - 80+ gets winter fuel allowance. She earns about £75K from her pensions per annum. Doesn't need it - nor the free TV licence either

Tocc I remember all your posts from mn old when you were working shifts around your DH as well (that was you I remember, wasn't it?)

You shirker you.

Ultimately, I worked as long as i copuld and paid into NI in case this happened. I wish it hadn't, but I refuse to feel guilty: I habve done nothing to be ashamed of. I care for my kids, dh works ridiculous hours trying to get us back on track- in fact, not so much not ashamed of as I feel really proud that we are trying as ahrd as we are; that Dh works most days from 7am until 11pm; that we have maintained our marriage agionst odds 9something like an 80% break up rate in famillies with SN- that's help us get sorted wouldn't it?)

There's no fault here!. Even as a carer I have been studying with the aim of self employment except funds for tuition ran out. I don't aim to never work again but realistically it will be at cost to the state for direct payments (still a few eyars off for us according to SW) for specialist childcare.

Sancti - yes that was me - it's over 3yrs since I left that job (you have a good memory). Was hell on earth..........and certainly didn't help our relationship.

Of course I am Riven

Photographic tocc, makes me look a stalker but damn I am good at exams! I;ve even been known to recite an enire half of a west end show two years after seeing it (when I was in my teens)

I would not give any more money to people who have more kids after they have started claiming benefits - we as a country cannot afford to pay for people to have kids when they are not working.

This would then clear up the problem of overcrowding in many cities as someone who is given a 2 bed flat to house them and their spouse and 1 or 2 kids wouldn;t then need to move to a bigger house after having more kids.

Lenin whillst i would nto advocate it generally, Dh is on an 18 month waiitng list (you'd think the benfit claiming, genetic syndrome bearing proles would get bumped up wouldn't you? ) for a vasectomy so perhaps he can be sterilisation tester number one?

Oh and your sic cousins have nowt on my lot: Dad is 15/16 in a 32 bed house where grandparents had a room to tehmselves.

Shift sleeping and multiple in each bed.

niiiice.

Did it affect them?

Of course it bloody did; several are / died through alcoholism, Dad was the only one accepted to grammar (and Nan said no as the otehrs hadn't gone).... right rabble they were

a 32 bed house is that a typo???

32

FFS Peachy! learn to type

3

Best thing was years later when I was asked to countersign mum of 2's application for a move to a bigger house as she said it was too tiny

I had to sign but she rightlky didn;t stand a chance in hell

generally wrt to lareger houses theya re reserved for special cases- we ahd a family with 5 kids in a 3 bed house after being upgarded from 2. However sopcial worker tells us they would only allow us a four bed council house (not that we want one and we are quite happy in a 3 bed house) as technically ds4 shouldn't be in our room as he is now, and ds1 and ds3 need separate rooms due to their asd anyway (DS2 and ds4 can of course share)

It might make thinsg easier I guess but heck, think of the vaccuming

haha - I was thining hmmm 32 bedroom house doesn't sound that bad

"actually some people are worth more than £500K to the economy"

"Move to Monaco."

How's that going to help the economy Coolfonz?

My dad grew up sharing a bedroom with 3 siblings.

My grandfather, yep, 17 children and two bed house.

No alcoholism or drugs or that.

All of them finished school. None of them lived like that again.

investment in social change is whats needed

thing about smoking - oh how it was the done thing - everyne did it, you could smoke at your desk at work, in the car with 3 kids ( no seatbelts) in the back

think about breastfeeding - the change in attitude about this, more working classes breastfeeding.

so - we want to change a societal culture. We have to educate parents. we have to have parenting classes upon reciept of child benefit - as a condition of getting it. en masse, adults will be told that x behaviour is unacceptable. in front of a room of other people, they should be forced to view their self, their circumstances and why they are not striving for a better future for their children. these parental classes will create a social attitudal change. they could be linked to other services such as smopking cessation , alcohol and drug advice, further education.

why did i, pregnant at 16, from a working class background - married to a guy from what can only be described as a 'good' underclass background...why did we work, go to college, work more, go to uni, work more, move house for better education for the kids....why then did i do this and other people just dont?

im not special, im not particularly bright - i'd say i was your average josephine.

becuase of both of our parental values. it was expected that we work, we educate ourselves, but we make the best life we could for our family - it was just always 'there' these values were instilled by good parents.

so lets help shape good parents. i know this country is on the bones of its arse - but i can't see a better investment than this.