Dave's cuts are going be deep and they will hurt

[FellatioNelson]

I've been hearing this all day on the radio. I can't take the suspense any longer. They are going to affect the lives of 'every one of us'

I feel like a person wincing and clenching my teeth in anticipation of the big fuck-off needle the school nurse is wielding, and I'm next in the queue....

Come on then, what's it going to be?

Does that not then target those who can't get back to work? So, the more vulnerable again?

Funny that

There's someone on MN (won't out them) who ahs just ahd their offered place withdrawn due to funding cuts. I have no knowledge of tehir personal circs but can imagine how awful that would be, esp. if say you'd already given notice from a job or even moved. After starting Uni I discoverd that after hauling my entire family here in June so they could be settled, the coourse almost hadn't run. I'd have been livid!

ds is managing with zero parental support (pretty much) and a tiny grant. It can be done, unless in London then I would think it's pretty impossible. But he will end up with a good sized debt. We won't be able to afford to pay it off for himand I do worry that there'll be decent jobs at the end of it.

And just to say working through uni is ideal, yes, but there are very few jobs out there at the moment. The job ds left last Autumn which he was hoping to return to over the summer has fallen by the wayside. They won't be replacing the student who has it at the moment when he goes home. He hasn't been able to secure a job this academic year in his university town.

SMA - it is only a suggestion from a policy adbviser, no need for us to panic yet (he did the same job for Labour and they never listened to him).

On Dh's course only one student orher than him hs employment.

We ended up offering to feed one student after he stopped eating due to money. he refused, though (a bit too proud for his own good). Actually there was a kid on my course who got ill from not eating; his parents ahd beena ssessed as making a full contribution then upped sticks to some non cotactable part fo India (OK, well they probably made themselves non contactable IYKWIM- there's email in India!) to find themselves.

Luckily a friend who knew him better than I took him in for a bit, she had 'kids' same age.

I note Dh's Uni has started to offer summer funding for students who cannot secure a summer job. Says a lot really.

LOL, not panicking, just commenting.

haven't the tories commissioned FF forr a poverty study? Mind that might be a way of palming off harsh decision as Labour's fault...... (let's face, every party does it).

Yes, he was asked to 'think the unthinkable' by Labour (he is a Labour MP I think) but then sacked when they didn't like what he came up with. The new government have asked him to come up with radical ideas to lift people out of poverty, but he favours a 'tough love' approach I think.

I think FF is widely respected by members of all parties. He does talk a lot of sense.

Re Uni - Bloody Tony Blair wanted 50% to go to Uni - why, it is not affordable and surely not needed. The result is massive student debt, massive underfunding. My son is about to leave with £10K debt (and I am led to believe there are many with worse debts) - 3 years maintenance loan. He took that out and it just covers his rent, the Bank of Mum and Dad paid the rest.

Trouble is amothers whether it was needed then it is now if you want to be at all competitive

Everyone in DH's field has a degree so DH must have one too

It's simply thee way it has become

My field needed a degree (was going into teaching) but DH's is doable with an HND and a few eyars post HND training

Except it's not as there is no HND any more as it's all degree

Wishful thinking aside, if we want our kids to succeed we ahve to look at what is actually out there and what others will ahve to offer now

'Franco - who has been guaranteed a well-paid job regardless of any sign of talent or self drive? Apart from the Royal family' I think you could exempt the two Princes from this as flying helicopters is a skilled job and needs talent, judgement and guts.

'When people elect to take a private alternative to state provision that is a luxury and should be taxed accordingly.' So what do you do when the state provision isn't there, or means that you can't work? We don't live in a communist society, that's the whole point - we have a choice. We do not HAVE to use the state services if we choose not to, even though we do pay for them. Your statement is actually illogical, because you have already funded the state provision through tax and NI, so why you should you be taxed again for choosing not to use it. Am I to be taxed for buying a book when I could borrow a state provided one from the library? Will we be taxed pay as you view for all non-BBC TV?

Don't like the thought of cb going at 13; I worked when ds was a baby to when he was 10, then gave up to move abroad with dh (HMG job), so the cb is my income and also ensures that my hrp gets paid (special exemption for trailing spouses of HMG employees posted abroad). It helps towards ds's clothes and shoe bill. Size 10s at 14 aren't cheap, and he's growing like a weed at the moment, so needs new trousers every couple of months.

For all those advocating VAT on everything, and a rise in VAT, I live in Belgium, where VAT is 6% on food and 21% on everything else, and it hurts. I come back to UK to go to Sainsbury's and to buy clothes for ds because it is so much cheaper.

Scaryteacher not vat on everything, luxury non essential items that are currently vat free.

Lets just take from the poor and vulnerable

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-welcome-to-c ameron-land-1962318.html

'luxury non essential items that are currently vat free' what, like some food, books and children's clothes? I can't think of any other luxury non-essential items that are VAT free.

'Tis easy - stop paying so much to the EU and the problem goes away, and VAT goes down as we have to pay part of it to fund the EU anyway.

I am concerned that cuts will target the most vulnerable. There is sadly a tendency for those most able to afford tax rises to dodge the bullet and even claim moral superiority whilst doing so.

People who own their own companies do not avoid tax. They are unpaid tax collectors. They also have to pay corporation tax. And business rates...for which you get NOTHING...no bins collected, no street lighting, nothing. The companies pay for every single person they employ in employers NI. Please have correct information before spouting off.

I'm sure someone mentioned earlier about decriminalizing and taxing drugs.

The more I think about it the more it makes sense.

Let's stop paying so much to Scotland and Wales...why should they have free prescriptions and free care for the elderly (Scotland) and a say on who governs England?

Scaryteacher - I won't argue with you about the two princes, but my point was that even if they swanned about doing bugger all they'd still have a guaranteed lifetime income more than most people could ever dream of - including me - and I'm rich by comparison by many people's reckoning!

Alouiseleg I think that idea might have some value in it. Cedarcottage I live in the miidle of nowhere, have no street lighting, road sweeping pay the highest rate community charge. I see it as my duty.

Cedarcottage prepare for a flaming. Although I totally agree with you.

scaryteacher - If there was VAT on school fees you wouldn't be paying twice. This is because you don't pay tax to get an education, you pay tax to get a functioning state. One of the things that we've decided our state should do is provide free education as an educated population is a boon to ALL those in society. If you take up private education that is your choice. But you haven't paid twice, you've paid once for a state that provides free education to all and once for private education for YOUR child.

This says nothing about tax on school fees though.

And as far as i'm concerned you can put VAT up to 1000% on sundried tomatoes. Vile chewy things. Caviar's not all that either.

I would amalgamate (sp) ccounty councils.

it seems that they are starting in the middle and working down to cut costs - I would prupose a start at the top and work down. Therefore putting three councisl together and getting ride of two chief execs - and have one chief ex run three councils or two if they are large like cornwall and devon and wiltshire together and somerset glous and worcester - west midlands staffs and warks

that way you will get rid of 6 chief ex and save thoses sals each year

Councils will also then have three lots of services which then can agian be streamlined - wages/finance can have one department instead of three - same with legal services adn HR - droping two and keeping one department

lets cut the amount of people working for local goverment and ssee if there are real jobs for them or not.

council tax would be set over three county councils and not one - which should agian keep costs down.