Dave's cuts are going be deep and they will hurt

[FellatioNelson]

I've been hearing this all day on the radio. I can't take the suspense any longer. They are going to affect the lives of 'every one of us'

I feel like a person wincing and clenching my teeth in anticipation of the big fuck-off needle the school nurse is wielding, and I'm next in the queue....

Come on then, what's it going to be?

ah, I think we are actually agreeing here, Fellatio. Your original post (the one I picked up) sounded as if you were assuming women get pregnant outside marriage or partnership in order to get a council flat. Am glad to see that's not in fact the case.

Tbh I really don't understand why anyone would make an active choice to be on benefits - it's hardly the life of Riley. Unless your only alternative is a really shitty job paying peanuts with no prospect of promotion or career development, I guess.

From what I see in my own family coalition and their acquaintances quite a lot of stealing goes on anyway, benefits don't necessarily put an end to that. Starving well I guess that depends on your definition I would consider some of the lifestyle choices to be starving of nutrition at least.

So the people who think that everyone who's on benefits could get out if they just tried:

how do you explain the fact that Britain has such a rich/poor gap i.e this quote from the Guardian:

"London is the most unequal city in the developed world, with the richest 10th of the population 273 times wealthier than the poorest 10th. That's right 273 times better off"

So if we look at the economic and political structures of the UK, all signs point to the fact that the rich/poor divide is more the result of the greediness of the people at the top as opposed to the laziness of those at the bottom; and that those at the top i.e the decision-makers design policies to make sure the wealth keeps flowing to them. Other countries do not do this. They help their poor.

mamatomany - and how would taking their state support away improve that situation?

London is a bit of an edge case though. How so those numbers stack up for Birmingham or Cardiff or Hull?

The axe should fall on public sector pensions - getting 90% of your final salary for life indeed!! Public sector jobs seem to be adequately remunerated versus the private sector, yet seem strangely immune to little things like market values which affect those of us in the private sector aka real world.

Of course it wouldn't but equally you can see why I don't appreciate being taken up the arse twice by people committing petty crime, fraud and by the way if we could just tax you to the hilt to make sure nobody starves too that would be great.
I don't have the answers otherwise I'd be a politician but it makes me laugh at all the poor single mum type comments, every single mum I've ever known and I went to school with plenty, live with their boyfriends.

mamatomany - That's an example of the current system encouraging 'bad' choices.

Um, Edam not sure what I am supposed to say to that? The habitual sneering at nannies by the upper-middle classes, and a brief history of the world encompassing the birth of capitalism, and the Rotten Romans? Who do you think I am - a reincarnation of Marie Antionette?

I am not perpetuating any lies about 'all' single mums being 'feckless teenagers'(your words, not mine) and I never said a young mother is a bad mother. Mine was 19 FFS! I don't know how many more times I can dissect my own posts for you, before you'll read what I'm actually writing, and not just home in on what suspect is my evil subtext!

You are cherry picking and putting word in my mouth like crazy, because you have made up your mind that I have zero compassion or empathy, or understanding of real life. Like I said, you will continue to find what you want to find, and filter out everything else. I give up.

Sorry Edam, crossed posts. I see we have finally called a truce!

Every single child of a single parent has a father.

That father should be responsible for the child not society as a whole. If a man is able to father a child he is able to provide for it.

We can lose the Csa and take direct payments from the paye system. In the case of the self employed an amount can be taken twice yearly, if they refuse to play ball. I know plenty of divorced people who don't trouble the benefits system. It's not compulsory!

My mother was the daughter of a single parent, she was born in 1946, my Grandmother went to work for a family as a housekeeper so she could keep her baby. She did what was necessary to survive.

The culture of entitlement that we have frightens me.

Great posts fellation (and Mumble)
I love the waterwings analogy.

So true about life being hard and tedious for many of us, and peopel expecting more and more.
I went to a very impotant departmental meeting yesterday, involving peopel from all over the country. It was to tell us abouyt the cuts and sacrifices that had to be made.
We were told in on uncertain terms we were all expected to be there.
A good 25% of people sloped off early, csaying they 'had to pick up the children' including one of the mangers exhorting us to all give al ittle bit more for a little bit less.

I was infuriated as were many others- we had made the necessary arrangements for our kids as we were told we had to be there.In my case, it involved two sparate peopel picking upo and dropping off and a 4 hours drive (my dh is abroad).

Since when did work fit around one's private life?

Dontcha love that phrase, that it's going to "affect the lives of everyone of us".

I'll tell you what, I bet it bloody affects those less well off more than those who're very well off.

I wonder how many of these decisions which "affect the lives of everyone of us" will be progressive and how many will be regressive. Hmmm, well here's a couple of clues.

Announcement two days ago that the planned rise in capital gains tax from 18% to 40% (and which would affect, hmmm, second home owners, financial investors and people with larger investments) will be watered down in the budget to make it less punitive.

Announcement today that the planned extension of free school meals to the amongst the poorest children in society will not be happening.

Anyone wonder which way this is going to go?

moondog - but at the same time work doesn't OWN you 24/7. An employer pays you for you contracted hours. Anything outside that is a negotiation.

Alouiseg - what happens if a father CAN'T support the children though? Either through misfortune of through fecklessness leading to him having too damn many of them?

Uh, this was contracted hours.
I can't be doing with whingeing women wanting to be seen as 'equals' and 'professionals' and then sloping off at every tiny domestic upset.
Rife in the public sector-I workj with peopel who wouldn't last a minute in the private sector.

Coalition-tough shit.There should be an automatic deduction from every wage/benefit with every child born.

It enrages me, having to pay for other peopel's stupidity and selfishness.

Coalition, if he's got the energy for a shag he's got the energy to work.

What happens to the fathers is that they have their child support deducted from their wages or their benefits or they go to jail.
My betting is that if you KNEW that would happen you'd be a lot more careful about how many people you have children with and those children would be better off as a result.
Walking away should not be an option and that doesn't apply just to those on income support type benefits, I know of another lady who's ex gave her £250k in divorce settlement and considers that to be his lot, he is now making sure he fiddles his taxes to show £0 income and not paying a penny towards his children, which all fine because she's collecting £900 a month in tax credits from the likes of us whilst he popped over to California for a fortnight with the new girlfriend and she went on a cruise this half term with the children. I suspect that is not the people Gordon Brown had in mind when he started to put together his plans for CTC etc.

moondog - There needs to be give and take on both sides.

moondog - Aye, but if his wages or benefits are LESS than the total deductions, what then?

Alouiseg - the problem is that a males ability to reproduce can easily outstrips their ability to earn. What happens then?

mamatomany - I think that is the logical conclusion. I'm not sure it's one that would gain widespread public support, especially as I don't see how you could structure it to exclude the unfortunate. You would end up spending a lot more on prisons, and would have a lot more children in care.

Take a percentage then Co-alition of whatever comes in.

Give and take on which two sides?

As a public sector worker I have seen literally tens of thousnads of examples of people truly and utterly taking the piss over the last two decades.

Then I go to SE Asia where my dh works and see children slaving on the streets for a plate of rice.

Makes no sense at all.