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Politics

Dave's cuts are going be deep and they will hurt

1002 replies

FellatioNelson · 07/06/2010 14:26

I've been hearing this all day on the radio. I can't take the suspense any longer. They are going to affect the lives of 'every one of us'

I feel like a person wincing and clenching my teeth in anticipation of the big fuck-off needle the school nurse is wielding, and I'm next in the queue....

Come on then, what's it going to be?

OP posts:
SanctiMoanyArse · 08/06/2010 18:35

'SMA, but surely if the loopholes were tightened up, and everyone was strongly encouraged to take more personal and social responsibility for their own families, and taking work that's available, even if it isn't very inspiring, then mad old men like that would have less to get frustrated/abusive about about!

See I hear that a lot

and I agree somewhat

But it still doesn't mean I am a valid target does it?

I used to work with famillies where many were genrationally claiming: it wasn't purely through laziness or choice, they were complex and the situations that got them tehre needed taking apart brick by brick- you could thrust them into work but most would be unemployable tbh. in fact many did work, a week here, 3 days there- always their cards and a back door ASAP.

I am beyond sick of taking flack for other people's messes; of people saying 'then claiming wouldn't be acceptable...' I am acceptable. My sons are acceptable. They are not to be shoved into a corner with a label saying 'financially invalid'.

I've workd two jobs at once and loved it; so has DH. We paid into this thing called NI for 40 yaers between us. We are not fecking unacceptable, we are normal decent human beings with as much of a need for dignity and peace as anyone else.

We lost our home and didn't complain. We moved to Wales in search of progression and lost all family help (which is important with disabled kids) adn did not wince. We've taken hit after hit, given everything we can and now we are increasingly seen as - what? Less, I guess is the word.

SanctiMoanyArse · 08/06/2010 18:39

Riven I hope mto God you're joking about pensions, I am as sick of seeing my aprents take knovks after a lifetime of saving as I am of our sit; they saved every penny- no house, no car, no foreign hols- and their pension fund collapsed. it's surely not a case of don't hit this vulnerable person... but quick over there, get that one?

EnglandAllenPoe · 08/06/2010 18:42

fnnily enough the research done by the last govenments suggest that the best way to reduce benefit fraud would be to make it more possible for people to profit from their work, and from living as a couple rather than singly. yet they still paid out for a massive ad campaign targetting benefit fraud instead....

sarah293 · 08/06/2010 18:45

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edam · 08/06/2010 18:45

Funny how the people responsible for causing the pension funds to collapse never suffer, isn't it? Even when there has clearly been theft on a grand scale.

mumblechum · 08/06/2010 18:55

RIVEN - no, you said you'd look at the drafts & get back to me. (I'll check my spam filter but don't think I've heard anything from you since then)

sarah293 · 08/06/2010 18:57

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oldandgreynow · 08/06/2010 18:59

Pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq- lay off 2/3 of the army but keep them on reserve for 15 years
Get rid of stupid public health and safety campaigns and the Health education authority.Scrap Arts and Culture grants.Stop foreign aid and accept no more asylum seekers.Hammer tax payers on top slice iof income say over £100k

oldandgreynow · 08/06/2010 19:00

Oh and why is it Gordon Browns fault.Is he responsible for Greece and Spain being in sh*t creek too? No its a global phenomenon.

sarah293 · 08/06/2010 19:01

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SanctiMoanyArse · 08/06/2010 19:02

It would be incredibly wrong to stop accepting asylum seekers, that would mean sending people, sometimes chidlren, to their deaths.

However certainly there is a huge moral case for a cnsideration of the EU Immigration laws- I have had no issues with the rules up until now but if we have more people than jobs then we can't share.

I know EU regs stop us pulling the gate up and I aqbsolutely do not want out of Europe but it's something to learn from.

edam · 08/06/2010 19:04

Laying off any public sector worker puts more people on the dole. Fewer people paying taxes, more people on benefits. And less work for private sector companies who rely on contracts with the state or sell goods and services to people who work in the public sector.

Anyone who can come up with a way of cutting spending without job losses will be the recipient of the nation's thanks. Anyone who can cut jobs and actually save money doing it, without equivalent costs cropping up on other budget lines will deserve thanks from that part of the nation they aren't making redundant.

herbietea · 08/06/2010 19:10

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sethstarkaddersmum · 08/06/2010 19:14

thing is, the balance between private and public sector in this country is currently no good - too public-sector-heavy. But just cutting the public sector isn't going to magic loads of private sector jobs into existence. I would like to know what plans the government has to encourage entrepreneurship and help the private sector to thrive....

mumblechum · 08/06/2010 19:17

rIVEN

It went out on 16th May & you replied on 17th to say you had a migraine & wd get back to me. I'll resend it in a sec.

Mc

sarah293 · 08/06/2010 19:21

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FellatioNelson · 08/06/2010 19:37

No, SMA you are not a valid target at all. And you are not 'less' and please don't think that everyone thinks so. For ever nutter who shouts at you in the street or labels you, there are many thousands who do not, and just quietly empathise. I would not want to live in a country where people in your situation were left to the mercy of charities.

But for some sections of society where there is endemic, complex and seemingly hopeless levels of uselessness and lack of motivation like the ones you have mentioned, too much empathy and understanding can just perpetuate the cycle of disadvantage and over-reliance on the state. They need practical help to become employable, yes, and they need encouragement and mentoring to aspire to realistic goals, they don't need patronising with lifelong no-strings handouts that enable them to maintain the status quo. But sometimes that 'encouragement' needs to be delivered with a bit of a push, or nothing changes.

I am of course talking about people who have no physical or mental disability or long term condition that prevents them from working regularly, and becoming self-reliant.

I'm talking about people who don't even attempt to seriously look for work, unless it's big bucks in the back pocket for relatively little effort. You know - those people who are just too damned sniffy about what they will and won't do, even though they have no real skill or experience or educational achievement to offer an employer, because they know they can get the same or more money for doing nowt. (Hence why we have so many lovely hard working Eastern Europeans in our shops and restaurants and fields and factories.)

I'm not suggesting we stop feeding or housing the long-term unemployed, or carry out enforced abortions, or put them in the workhouse, or any of the other things I generally get accused of on these threads.

I just think it's about time we started laying down a few more ground rules, and expecting a bit more in return from those who are frankly, a bit too comfortable with their lot, and see no reason to change it.

And please don't tell me I'm generalising, and tarring everyone with the same brush. You all know the people I mean, even if it irks you to say it!

And you say your sons are not 'financially invalid'. In my experience people with chronic disabilities or learning difficulties or other serious issues generally want to work, and go to great lengths to make a valid contribution in whatever way they can. And of course provision should always be be made to enable them to do that to the best of their ability, and to subsidise them if necessary. And we should be compassionate, if sadly, financial independence is not within anyone's their grasp.

But again, they are not who my thoughts were directed at, are they?

OP posts:
wubblybubbly · 08/06/2010 19:42

I don't understand where all of these jobs for the chronically unemployed are going to come from? The cutting the costs of the benefits system won't come from creating jobs for these people, it will come from cutting benefits for everyone, including those of the most vunerable in our society.

We're talking about making massive public sector cuts, that means job losses, good talented people out of work. People like Herbieta's DH (well like everyone these days really) working even longer and harder to try to keep their jobs and employer's don't have to take on extra staff.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 08/06/2010 19:48

Re: Opera.

"Turn that fucking racket off! It's just VOWELS! Subsidised... foreign... vowels! "

SanctiMoanyArse · 08/06/2010 19:54

Fellatio ds3 won't work, autism has decided that tunes out for long periods / no concentration span....) DS1 will probably though if he can get initial support.

ATM only the NAS provides that.

I used to work in the charity sector with struggling famillies; many involve were not on benefits but it so happened mya rea was two massively dependent estates. What worked mor than anything was time. Our volunteers took people to family groups, accompanied them swimming, lots of little things that did get their self esteem going and made it far easier to then work with them for more life changing things like jobs and behaviour.

The key was aprtly getting people invovled in their communities so tehy didnt feel liek outsiders (preaching social responsibility can well fall on deaf ears to those who have beens tuffed repeatedly by aprents, schools, housing....) but also the main gift: the gift of time, of someone taking a few hours for them : ridiculously under valued gift, that of acceptance.

It's not just the people themselves either; my old boss had a list of streets he would not hire anybody from (different employer obv LOL); if soemone facebook checked me tehy'd find (well not as its secure now buyt YKWIM) that I attended a sink school so abd that the alumni group is for people who survived! people back home know this rep.

Yet I have a degree and am neither a criminal not a drug addict.

And when working in support in the private sector (Psych) I have ahd several run ins with bosses over my attempts to get clients into education schemes that will enable them to re-enter the jobs market.... and leave the provision, meaning Boss loses the easy money for their non-existentc are. I used to hate that.

And there is the very simple issue of less jobs than people right now. Sadly.

That's not pussy footing about, I am no sucker. I grew up on teh estates mentioned and up until the boys ASD took over, neitehr I nor my sisters were in any way dependent: my Dad worked stupid shifts of 16 hours a day fevery day for 20 day stretches to givce ud chances. But equally, the problems are deep and certainly not all solvable putrely by the claimant.

And the charity I worked for is losing branches for financial reasons, of course. Just as it becomes most needed.

Surprise · 08/06/2010 20:08

Haven't read the whole thread but my plan would be:

Scrap Trident
Pull out of Afghanistan
VAT on private education
Means-test child benefit

Job done.

Actually job done with just the first suggestion.

My feelings are that the NHS will go - the one remaining thing that's Great about Britain. Sit back and watch the Tories fuck up this country all over again.

SanctiMoanyArse · 08/06/2010 20:11

DS3 starts his epilepst assessment next month so am holding tighet to NHS! however DC benefitted lots from it so fingers crossed.

I'd be for scrapping trident too. So easy.

oldandgreynow · 08/06/2010 20:18

Riven 'laying off the army means more people on the dole surely?'

The dole is a lot cheaper than a salary

mumblechum · 08/06/2010 20:20

True, but it also means less tax & ni coming in.

Lotkinsgonecurly · 08/06/2010 20:23

Agree with Surprise:
Scrap Trident - fab idea.
Slow withdraw from Afghanistan
VAT on everything including children's clothes etc.
20% vat on luxury goods eg, antiques, art, Opera tickets.Classic fm.

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