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Politics

Lefties 9: This will succeed through its success

665 replies

taffetacat · 14/05/2010 20:21

Is everyone on Twitter now?

OP posts:
jackstarbright · 21/05/2010 13:18

Bucherest

"That whole surestart etc aimed at the people who most need it was what caused ructions when TB first became leader, with the more socialisty types (Prezza) spitting his buns out over the very idea..."

I've always seen Surestart as symbolic of the struggles between New Labourites and more traditional socialists. What fascinates me is the original idea was born in the treasury 1998 and died in 2005 due to either political expediency or because the socialists won the argument or some combination of the two. Maybe I should get a copy of Campbell's diary?

[Sorry - I'm a non-leftie lurking]

Highlander · 21/05/2010 14:30

HVs come to your house and stick their nose in. if you're already feeling a bit isolated, they are of no use whatsoever.

At a Surestart centre, you get out of the house and meet other mums, who are acknowledged to be the best support. There's a range of services that you can use for you and your baby. I cannot believe the present govt is going to axe them.

Highlander · 21/05/2010 14:36

going back a bit to a living wage..........

DH and I happen to be born 'brainy'. we've both got good basic and post-graduate degrees. Academia just happens to be our skill. As a research scientist (taking a lengthy career break) I don't get paid much. DH, on the other hand is a doctor, and gets paid a mint, totally within the NHS.

Given that's it's just luck that DH is academic - why does justify his enormous salary? Why is his academic nature valued so much more in society than, for example, the hospityal cleaners? And before anyone wades in with 'ultimate patient responisbility', sure his job can be stressful, but he's been trained to cope with it.

I personally think the salary gap needs to close. A lot.

Highlander · 21/05/2010 14:37

really enjoyed newsnight last night.

Highlander · 21/05/2010 14:38

sorry, thast should be Question Time

Heathcliffscathy · 21/05/2010 17:37

isn't it that what's wrong with politics that we don't like them crumpled?

shirl can be as crumpled as she like she still rocks.

animula · 21/05/2010 18:05

Mumsnet campaign for the cessation of ironing in politics starts here?

i wonder if I'm soft-crumpled, or hard-crumpled ....

earthworm · 21/05/2010 18:07

Highlander - your DH can justify his enormous salary because he studied for seven years (or however long it is), knows lots of important stuff, takes on a lot of responsibility and does a job that few people could manage. He is valued more than a cleaner because lots of people could do that job as it doesn't require any specialised skills/knowledge. His academic nature is prized because relatively fewer people have it.

earthworm · 21/05/2010 18:09

I have worked for Surestart and every single person I knew agreed that they weren't really reaching the people they needed to reach. I realise that many people have good experiences of Surestart, but am not sure that the vast sums spent on it could not be better spent elsewhere.

jackstarbright · 21/05/2010 20:33

earthworm have you read this Guardian article by Norman Glass - one of the originators (along with Yvette Cooper and Gordon Brown) of Surestart? It cover the initial purpose of Surestart and how it moved away from this focus.
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Beachcomber · 21/05/2010 21:26

hello lefties, just popping in quickly again. Wish I had more time to contribute on all the clever and interesting things you are all saying.

However saying as I have tonnes of work to do plus 9 people staying at my house this weekend, I'll just say that I'm FOR crumpled politicians.

earthworm · 21/05/2010 22:16

Fascinating article jackstarbright, and absolutely true. I have seen Surestart staff doing everything in their power - including going door to door - to get local communities involved only to be met with suspicion. There is such a lot of stigma with accepting help - perceived as interference - from government agencies. What a shame they lost their original focus. The centre I was most familiar with mostly provided free classes - baby yoga etc - to professional women on maternity leave.

Prolesworth · 21/05/2010 23:01

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animula · 21/05/2010 23:32

Indeed, the mass scramble for the "Exit from Responsiblity for War" is not that edifying. On the other hand, it's perhaps an acknowledgement of some things.

For example, my theory about the war is that entry into it was structurally determined by the principles underlying New Labour, themselves determined by the experience of electoral defeat in four elections. The major determinant was, I think, a feeling that Labour had to show itself very willing to accommodate established power; the markets, the "special relationship"; not be seen as too radical, or wanting to rock the boat too much.

So, entry into the war wasn't an accident, a temporary aberration, and it can't be put down to individual egomania (of Blair), which I think some apologists have tried to do.

I see the stepping away from the war as a signal that there is a feeling that that accommodation went a bit too far, and a recognition that it alienated a lot of the core vote.

It would be really interesting to hear what psephologists have to say about who did, or did not, vote for Labour this time. Did they lose core voters?

In my dreams, I see a lot of the bits of New Labour I'm not so fond of as having been determined by the wishes of the over-powerful C2s. And, again I come back to my hope for PR and a diminution of that power.

Warning - all this is just pondering - I have nothing, at all, to justify any of these opinions!!

animula · 21/05/2010 23:35

Btw - did anyone read the interview with Diane Abbot in the Guardian today?

It sounded as though she was channelling mn. Which made me smile. I can't imagine Diane doing a Sarah (and watching mn).

Prolesworth · 21/05/2010 23:48

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animula · 22/05/2010 00:06

Yes, it was so mn! I've been wondering about the whole -ve image of Diane Abbot. It can't have been a lot of fun giving a "no" vote to the war. Was it whipped? i suppose I will have to google to find out ... .

animula · 22/05/2010 00:10

... and then I think about her comment about John McDonnell not standing, and I'm a bit

Prolesworth · 22/05/2010 00:13

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Prolesworth · 22/05/2010 00:13

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animula · 22/05/2010 00:20

No, not in article, referring back to when she announced her intention to run, and said JM wasn't. Which was a bit naughty.

Will read your link.

Prolesworth · 22/05/2010 00:21

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animula · 22/05/2010 00:32

Good speech.

Prolesworth · 22/05/2010 01:40

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Nymphisseeingstars · 22/05/2010 07:20

Just sticking my head in to see what we know about Andy Burnham

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