Anyone else fearful that the 5% pay cut given to Cabinet ministers will be passed down to all public sector workers?

[JackiePaper]

It's not looking good is it, both me and DH work in the public sector, and if we get 5% pay cuts, NI goes up 1%, Tax credits are cut and VAT increases to 20% i don't actually think we will be able to afford food

This public sector worker has on average a 15 hour day so there is no time for overtime.

No overtime here and although we can claim extra hours worked as time in lieu, of course we don't because we'd never get our jobs done.

My department has had to make cuts every year for as long as I can remember. Recruitment freezes are pretty regular, maternity is never covered, lots of people on short term contracts paid out of endowment funds so at the mercy of the markets.

I'll take a 5% cut though if it keeps jobs.

I think glastocat has hit the nail on the head.

Katycarr - where is that figure from? It implies an average 75 hour week, so that means a LOT of people doing 100+ hour weeks. Not sure that can be right.

Katycarr - oops."THIS public sector worker". Pesky not reading stuff properly. Sorry.

I was talking about me, I start work at 7 in the morning and rarely finish before 11pm. I llow myself an hour off to have my tea and talk to my child. I know lots of my colleagues do the same. I am not claiming that life is intolerable as of course we have the long holidays when we do very little. My colleagues who work less hours in term time tend to do more in the holidays.

See above ;)

sorry I missed that, I am popping in and out between writing reports so not paying full attention. Sorry

Sorry I've not had time to read the full thread, but ministers should have taken more than a 5% cut if they really want to lead by example.

During hard times in the 90s, my (US-based) company had pay cuts - it was 10% all round, 15% for senior managers and 25% for the CEO. I think they exempted a few of the lowest-paid junior UK staff (I was in the US at the time so not sure). Made it easier to swallow. Also the promise was that, come better times the lost earnings would be repaid, I'm glad to say they were. This was drastic but it avoided massive layoffs (or total demise of company).

Re: pensions.

'The parties commit to establishing an independent commission to review the long term affordability of public sector pensions, while protecting accrued rights.' Those of us with accrued rights should be OK then.

I love my job and would take a pay cut squarely on the chin. If anyone messes with my pension I will down tools.

I don't think you should panic, but the truth is we are all going to be affected. How refreshing it is that our leaders should lead by example and cut their own pay before expecting anyone else to have their pay cut. We are in a worse situation debt-wise than Greece. Labour just put off addressing it for so long is all. It's going to get worse before it gets better and we have a combination of world events and the live-for-today-and-sod tomorrow attitude of Brown's government to thank for that.
We are on one public sector salary ourselves, so...
We'll be ok.

www.rcn.org.uk/newsevents/congress/2010/congress_2010_resolutions_and_matters_for_discussion/ 4._busting_the_myth_on_nhs_pensions
Quick read for people who think public sector pensions are in some way going to make them millionaires.

Try again www.rcn.org.uk/newsevents/congress/2010/congress_2010_resolutions_and_matters_for_discussion/4._bust ingthemythonnhs_pensions

Ladybiscuit - I work in NHS admin - and do not recognise your description of skiving. We don't have a culture of skiving - our manager rightly cracks the whip and would not let us get away with it - we even all have to clock in and out at beginning and end of work day and lunchtime. Overtime only gets paid if previously agreed with our manager for specific projects/reasons - so if staying late to finish off my job I wouldn't claim anything, but I would if I'ld agreed to come in extra days. I know a hell of a lot of people (including myself!) who are working their arse off for £50 a day or less. Quite a few of whom are on temporary contracts which are unlikely to be renewed...

TotalChaos - that's why I've said (about five times now!) that it's pointless talking about the public sector as one organisation where the structures/attitudes/work are the same. I have another friend who is a secondary school teacher who works very hard and I never even see my other friend who's a paediatrician because she works such long hours.

But there are some parts of the public sector where people really don't do a lot (and my friends are the first to admit that they have a pretty easy life) and I don't think pretending that isn't the case serves any of us particularly well

TotalChaos - I'm sure most people in the NHS/other public services are not skiving. I'm sure some are. I don't think stopping skivving is going to give us enough savings. I think all public services need to do not just more with less, but in some cases just less. Both in terms of making admin more efficient - i.e finding processes that are unnecessery, can be simplified etc. by looking at ways of reducing demand for front line services rather than expanding provision (health education/improvment programms) and in some cases by just doing fewer things on the front line. There will be job cuts either way though

scoutliam - that article doesn't bust any myths I'm afraid. It clearly states that the NHS still provides defined benefit, final salary pension schemes. The private sector hasn't been able to do that for years. And the bit about that saving the tax payer money is laughable. Also, if someone has worked for 17 years and only get a £7k pension that means that that's what they were earning when they retired. Which presumably means they were on a very low grade and working part time.

I have worked for 25 years for a number of private sector organisations and contributed loads to pension schemes (the max permitted whenever possible) and am a higher rate tax payer. I think I'm currently looking at getting a pension of about £13k a year.

Public sector here too.

Recruitment freeze
Pay freeze
Employer pension contributions have gone down
Talking about taking away flexi time (so would need wraparound care and more expensive train ticket)

But I love my job. I did soemthing comparable in provate sector for 12 years, and do not regret the move.

How much would a manager , responsible for 60+ staff , budget of couple of million, regular responsibilty for 100ish members of the public at a time (with H&S that goes along with that), get paid?

(Private sector I mean)

I'm certain that Pay cuts cannot be imposed in the UK - they have to be voluntary. My employer tried to impose a 5% cut last year and we were all asked individually if we wanted to accept. We all said no. If you are worried join a union if you can (Mine was PCS although private sector). If your pay is bargained collectively you should have a vote on any change to pay. And if you are lucky enough to be in a final salary pension then bear in mind a pay cut will affect that.

I don't know how easy it would be for the law to be changed though

I think they do need to make cuts - dh's salary rises with the cost of living and up a grade in September. If they didn't do that and froze it instead it's a real cut of 5%-ish.

And it would be fine as obviously now, 3 months in advance we don't rely on it.

Everyone needs to make cuts.

oooji - I agree with you. I just doubt that the government are capable of doing it. Even senior NHS managers (for example) are often quite detached from what happens on the shop floor. A hell of a lot of money is wasted on quangos/consultancy, re-branding, audits, gimmicky documentation that becomes mandatory............I dunno, it's just really frustrating. Now I await with interest to see what the new government will ask of frontline staff. I embrace change but unfortunately (imo)the changes to administration are rarely efficient and usually laborious with little apparent gain.

Ladybiscuit - your friends have indeed got a cushy number. I don't know anyone in PS who is able to arse about like that. Online shopping I don't use the internet at all at work - no time. Happy with that too. I did go on mumsnet towards the end of my pregnancy but by that time I'd handed over a lot of my caseload and had a bit of free time.

Nymphadora - it entirely depends what sector you are in. And who you work for.

In the leisure/hospitality trade could be 15-20k in finance could be six figures.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom

2007 Annual Survey of hours and earning for gives :-
Managers and Executives mean=34,00
median= 47,082 top 90% starts at 78,072

The big difference in the mean and the median suggests that there are some high earners skewing the results.

Regarding police overtime: in my force we get scheduled approx 2- 3 days extra a month- and you HAVE to do it. Our shifts are 12 hours 7am- 7pm for 2 days then 7pm-7am for 2 days- THEN you have the over time for the 2- 3days - so you end up working 7 lots of 12 hour shifts with one day off (finishing on nights) before starting on days again.

Yes you get a lot of money for it but lots of people don't want to do it.

With the financial cuts in the public scetor and the recruitment freeze- overtime is just going to go up in some forces.

Our force has recalled all officers to these stations where they need man power meaning I have to resign as I can't leave my baby up north and work down south.

Luckily I am waiting to start with a local force but with the recruitment freeze I could be waiting a LONG time.