Integrity flew out of the window

[ninna]

The voting numbers showed that the fair result is a tory/libdem coalition.
The stumbling block seems to be that many libdem mps say they cannot work with the tory party. I did believe that they are honorable people even if some of the things they believe in are different from what I believe in. This is obviously not the case. MPs should be prepared to work with whoever the public dictates.
This is the low point of British politics.

Libdems only concern is the good of the country apparently - funny how it's the best offer of PR/AV that they're focussing on!

ninna, if everyone who voted Lib Dem did so on the assumption that they'd back Labour in a hung parliament, then Tory/Lib Dem would not reflect voting intentions.

It's not all about numbers...

"MPs should be prepared to work with whoever the public dictates."

That is arse about face. A politician should say 'this is what I believe in, do you want to vote for me?' A politician should not say 'oooh look, I'm in power. Now remind me again, what is it that I believe in'

This is why we are in the mess we are in: not enough conviction politicians.

To be fair - the Lib Dems are hearing that people care about electoral reform.

38 degrees raised over £15,000 in a few hours to place adverts telling Clegg not to form a coalition without PR.

Campaigners have stood outside their meetings with petitions signed by thousands of people, all saying they want them to hold out for something more than AV.

The Tories have the right to try and form the government, and it sounds as though they and the Lib Dems do have a Confidence and Supply arrangment worked out that both sides could cope with.

If it wasn't for the press would we think this was such a big deal? They are hyping it all up and reporting ever little comment an MP makes about it all. Wouldn't we rather they took their time and formed a stable government (the Queen's Speech isn't for 2 weeks anyway - not like its being held up) than they rushed into an arrangement that falls apart at the first challenge.

If someone wants to effect society's will then they should be a Civil Servant, not a politician.

Do you know, I don't have any sympathy for the people who vote Lib Dem because they hate one of the other parties and are now complaining that they might deal with the one they hate.

Its not the Lib Dems fault that the public vote the way they do. Its not their fault that the system encourages people to do that - and its the other two parties who won't allow the system to be altered enough that you can vote for the party you actually want to vote for - and now that they are pushing for the system to be changed that way people are still complaining.

Isn't that where AV is better - where we get to vote for our 1st and 2nd choice?

If the libdems are a credible party, people should be voting for them and not for an off-shoot of the labour party. Anyway I have read here that some libdems lean more towards the tories. Some people have said it's about 50 50.
Aren't we lucky to live here. We should aim to safeguard our political system

But are they?

They have worked out an acceptable confidence and supply deal - the country isn't going to fall apart.

Why not see if a more stable government can be formed before deciding that's the best option? It sounds like all the talks are civilised and the actual politicians are making compromises - its just the press hyping everything up and making things sound like chaos.

Why don't the Tories just offer a referendum on STV?

If people don't want it then they don't - but they will at least have been asked - isn't that the point of democracy?

The Lib Dems have said throughout that they had 4 things a coalition arrangement would be conditional on and over 20% of the country voted for them knowing that.

Agree with MintHumbug. Who are these people who are saying PR is such a big issue? I did some campaigning with Labor candidate and believe me, not one person said that electoral reform was an important factor in their lives.

Or if they didn't know it, its their own fault for not finding it out - the Lib Dems didn't hide it.

In a hung parliament there is this is a skew of power. The smaller parties end up holding the cards as MintHumbug said.

It is happening in the thriving metropolis of Tasmania. A few greens are ruling the roost in a hung parliament. Not particularly democratic.

Depends on how you look at it. The conservatives are the biggest party. But you could argue that the Labour/Liberal manifestos are much more closely aligned, and therefore MORE people voted for that than than for the Conservative agenda.

Equally, stability isn't just about stacking up the numbers - a Lib/Con coalition would be in danger of falling as soon as a Europe issue came up, because of fundamental idealogical differences. Whereas a Lib/Lab one could last longer, and as Paddy Ashdown pointed out on the Today programme this morning, would be workable because for example Sinn Fein never come to Westminster, SNP will NEVER vote with the Tories, so the 326 number is actually higher than they need.

MarshaBrady, I take it you don't remember John Major's gov't being held to ransom by the Ulster Unionists in its dying days, then?

To be honest - I'm completly against a 'rainbow' coalition.

But I don't think that the Lib Dems can avoid holding the talks because they have to report back to their members. I think that they need to be able to say we had the talks and such a coalition wouldn't be stable - should we go for confidence and supply, or ...this deal... with a Tory coalition.

I haven't been in the UK that long TheHeathenofS.

Lily - I think the only thing the Lib/Lab manifestos are aligned on are their immediate economic positions - the rest I think fits better with the Tory manifesto with a few glaringly obvious issues they don't agree on (electoral reform and europe)