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Original poster

If I vote Tory, would I be shooting myself in the foot, as a lone parent?

177 replies

BertieBotts · 02/05/2010 16:53

Just that really. I am musing. Never voted before and never been interested in politics (though I am fascinated by it all now) so I am feeling a bit blind with all this! I keep changing my mind about who to vote for.

I want to go back to college either this or next September rather than getting a job just yet. DS is 18 months. Do you think that I would be able to do this under a conservative government, or will I be forced to work? Thinking childcare costs etc. I can't find anything in any of the manifestos about it - does anyone know what the other parties have said or are likely to do?

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 02/05/2010 20:20

I agree completely with colditz.

Chil1234 · 02/05/2010 20:21

I earn over £20k so get very little in the way of tax credits or other benefits. My point is simply that this is not a discussion about single-parenthood in isolation, it's one about which party would protect benefits. If someone relies on benefits for all or a portion of their income then the Labour party is probably their best bet. But, even then, it would be naive to assume that the support would continue at their current levels or increase to match inflation.

smallishsheep · 02/05/2010 20:22

tax credits isn't just getting tax back though. When I worked fulltime I got more in tax credits than I ever paid in tax. It is basically a benefit by another name

colditz · 02/05/2010 20:22

Plenty of NT children benefit from private one to one tutoring, but it doesn't mean that I should pay for it with my income tax! it's not a necessity.

SamanthaFox · 02/05/2010 20:22

Do you know anything first hand about HE, Expat?
I agree btw on the funding issue. It is just sad for those of us who really feel strongly about HE. It doesn't mean we should automatically be allowed to do it at others' expense. I just wish everyone could afford to do it, including married people, etc.

SamanthaFox · 02/05/2010 20:23

Colditz, that wasn't the question. You criticised the 'isolation and enclosure' of HE.

twinkerbell · 02/05/2010 20:24

very hot thread, I do hope some politicians or media bods are waching this,
I think that everyone should expect to mke some contribution and having children is not an excuse to stay at home forever, they need to be set an example by parents/a parent who goes out to work and shows them that this is how society keeps going, by being supported by tax paid by workers and that enables them to be born and treated in a good hospital with trained staff and up to date equipment, go to a school and be educated and live on streets that are cleaned and policed. and it is EVERYBODIES job to contribute to this, children or no children, married or unmarried.

Chil1234 · 02/05/2010 20:25

"Can someone explain Tax Credits to me?"

They're simply a means-tested benefit designed to top up low incomes. They are not handled by the same people that deal with PAYE and are therefore not dealt with through the tax code. They don't even share your information. It annoys me every year that I painstakingly declare my income to the Inland Revenue on a tax return only to have to declare it all over again to the Tax Credit people.

Original poster
BertieBotts · 02/05/2010 20:28

amicissima - that would make more sense, I don't know why they didn't do that in the first place... I believe that the lib dems are planning to scrap tax credits in favour of tax code adjusting/raising the tax-free limit in the first place.

However, I think that child tax credits work differently. I don't pay tax at all, because I don't work, and yet I still get CTC. (But not working tax credit, obviously)

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 02/05/2010 20:34

'Do you know anything first hand about HE, Expat?'

Why yes, Samantha. I come from the US, where it's very common. I have two cousins who do it, for religious reasons.

And the government doesn't fund it. And if you said you expected them to, you'd be laughed out of the country.

Because, excepting those exceptions colditz pointed out, it's a lifestyle choice.

twinkerbell · 02/05/2010 20:34

student nurses and student teachers get a bursary of about £6000 a year and are expected to work 40 hours a week for around half the year and be at uni for the rest of it,so pretty much CANNOT work around this. Despite this they cannot claim working tax credits or child care element which is ridiculous, they also have to pay for prescriptions and school meals. If £6000 a year for pretty much FULL time work is not low pay then I dont know what is? I believe there are quite a few people on more than that just from benefits and they get free prescriptions, free school meals, don't have to pay council tax or rent. THAT is unfair!

electra · 02/05/2010 20:39

'get that education and earning power under your belt asap before you are trapped.'

I have a disabled child who is some of the time on a home program and who will always need a lot of care, day and night. How am I supposed to get 'earning power' under my belt, exactly??

SamanthaFox · 02/05/2010 20:42

Expat - I was referring to this:

'Home educating is a luxury lifestyle afforded by precious few people. You cannot expect everyone else to fund an indulgent lifestyle for you will the taxes they pay if 80% of them couldn't afford to do it themselves. Disabled children sometimes need to stay at home. NT children do not benefit from such isolation and enclosure. '

The last part of that paragraph is bollox, forgive the expletive. Neither Colditz nor yourself has been willing to support it. Can I take it therefore that you will concede it is untrue and unfounded?

expatinscotland · 02/05/2010 20:54

'Neither Colditz nor yourself has been willing to support it. Can I take it therefore that you will concede it is untrue and unfounded? '

Excuse me? I don't support taxpayers paying for your lifestyle choice.

That is my opinion, however 'unfounded' you find it, it's true to me!

I don't see why some lone parents should be allowed to stay home till their child finishes secondary school because they have chosen to HE, but others not.

And then, hey, well, won't everyone say they are?

You say you have 'only a few A levels and no further qualifications' and yet you want to stay on benefits so you can 'educate' your children?

And somehow this is something the taxpayer should support?

expatinscotland · 02/05/2010 20:55

And especially, support you to do it but other lone parents have to go back to work?

Get real!

SamanthaFox · 02/05/2010 20:56

Expat, please - I said the last part of the paragraph, ie the bit about NT children not benefiting from HE because it involved 'isolation and enclosure' was unsupportable and therefore unfounded.

I have already said I agree that other people shouldn't support my wish to HE.

i have started the other thread you refer to in order to find out what kind of work I could do once they are school age - have you actually read it properly? It is about work, not staying on benefits.

SamanthaFox · 02/05/2010 20:58

...struggling here to understand how you have misunderstood - did you think I meant how I could stay at home and on benefits? I was asking how to work from home, thus the bit about envelopes.

could I ask you to re read the OP, if you have a mo?

twinkerbell · 02/05/2010 21:04

its clear from this that there is a lot of confusion and illfeeling about working and non working mothers, misunderstanding about entitlements and what should or shouldnt be okay or a choice. I think this represent how conufsed we all are in gneral, the mixed messages about mums 'should be at home with the children' and then 'mums should be setting an example and going out to work',
one minute we are being blamed for the failing of society because were not at home raising and supervising our children and the next were being blamed for being a drain on society by stayin at home and claiming benefits to do so?
fact is, its a natural biological choice to have a child/children thats nothing any politician can do anything about... as yet and unless we start to get clear messages and fairer policy and provision the kind of stuff that has gone on in this thread is only going to continue and the resentment to rise

expatinscotland · 02/05/2010 21:08

I read it already, Samantha. AFTER you posted on here, a thread about lone parents on benefits.

This isn't a HE thread.

Colditz and I expressed an opinion that we do not feel HEing is a reason for lone parents to remain on benefits past a time when others are not allowed to do so.

You disagree with that opinion.

Okay.

Back to the subject, ladies.

SamanthaFox · 02/05/2010 21:13

By expatinscotland Sun 02-May-10 21:08:59
'I read it already, Samantha. AFTER you posted on here, a thread about lone parents on benefits.'

-er, good.

'This isn't a HE thread.' yes, I concur.

'Colditz and I expressed an opinion that we do not feel HEing is a reason for lone parents to remain on benefits past a time when others are not allowed to do so.'

yes, that's also true.

'You disagree with that opinion.'

No, I don't. In fact I am not sure how many more ways I can say it so that I understand. I disagree with NT kids not benefiting from HE, and with HE being isolating and enclosed.

'Okay.

Back to the subject, ladies. '

right.

I'm going to bed...would you PLEASE reread what I have written and try your best to understand it. I really can't be bothered to explain any more times! thankyou.

smallishsheep · 02/05/2010 21:14

'fact is, its a natural biological choice to have a child/children thats nothing any politician can do anything about.'

Twinkerbell, it's absurd to bring biology into this. We're talking social responsibility. I may want 10 children (in reality, the 2 I have are more than hard work enough for me ) but if I can't support them, biology has nothing to do with it, and we have access enough to contraceptives that accidents shouldn't happen as often as people claim ( dd was one such accident )
People cannot procreate at will if they do not then have the intention of supporting their offspring.
What we are talking about is getting lone parents back to work, and the support the government gives as a means to that end. It is my belief, though not one that would ever become policy as it is just not enforcable and it would ultimately punish the children, that once you are on benefits you should not be allowed to carry on having children ad infinitum.

smallishsheep · 02/05/2010 21:15

sam, when you come back, can I ask what you percieve the benefits of HE to be?

zippy539 · 02/05/2010 21:19

'It was Maggie T who threw open the doors of the open university and encouraged people into education again.'

Erm Pardon? What utter bollocks.I went to Uni during the Thatcher years - grants were slashed making it nigh on impossible for anyone except the extremely, extremely poor and the extremely, extremely rich to have access to further education. Anyone in the (very large) middle ground was completely stuffed.

Baileysismyfriend · 02/05/2010 21:20

I completely and utterly agree with smallishsheep.

twinkerbell · 02/05/2010 21:24

smallishsheep
steady on.... I was'nt saying it like that just stating a fact that it IS a biologcal thing that -as yet politicians can do nothing about.
I only have one child and would LOVE another but I know we cant really afford it and I too, although I know we will probably get slammed for this but also think that people who are not in a position to support a forthcoming child should not be allowed to have one but thats not going to happen is it.
why is why I was just saying that clear messages need to be given out and people need to be made to be responsible for their children if they are going to have them