All immigrants are equal but some are more equal than others

[mariepuree]

The immigrant hating section of society never seem to vent their disdain towards Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Swedes, Finnis, etc because they are acceptable and welcomed with open arms (and are mostly white).

The others, especially if you have non white skin or are from Eastern Europe, are despised, despite the fact that the majority of them actually work very hard and keep the engine of UK PLC running smoothing.

However, what really makes me laugh is how many of these haters threaten to emigrate to get away from the immigrants ruining this country. These numbskills do not realise that they too will then be classed as immigrants. Doh!

They also do not seem to realise that many British nationals work abroad for economic reasons. So it is OK for Brits to work abroad but nobody is allowed to come to the UK and take British jobs.

I do wonder how Britain ever became Great with so many idiots on its shores!

Eh?

Most people in this country work very hard regardless of their background.

I did not say anything contrary to that.

The point I am making is that the immigrant hating section of society accuse immigrants of either being here for the benefits or taking jobs (which most of these critics would not be prepared to do anyway) that should go to British workers.

I swear most of this "hatred" is the newspapers getting people riled up. It used to be the case that most "immigrants" to the UK were commonwealth citizens, mostly white. Now it is EU workers.

Jobs only get "stolen" from British workers because of other greedy British people employing these workers on much lower wages. So who is the bad person here? The person who comes here and does shit jobs for shit wages, or the person who exploits them?

Well my parents were immigrants in 1960s and doing the jobs that British did not want on really low wages. At least these days, there is a minimum wage. In the 1960s, there was no minimum wage and the exploiter was the Government!

In terms of exploitation, I actually blame the British public. For example, farmers have to keep the wages low for fruit and vegetable pickers because the British public will not pay a higher price for their fruit and veg. That is why supermarkets have to press gang farmers into keeping prices low.

Until Jo Public is prepared to pay a fair price for it buys, then wages for these workers and those in developing countries will be kept low. I mean, how can supermarkets sell school uniform for such low prices? Do parents think about this or even care when they buy them? That is why I buy mine from M&S and I am not even convinced that they are as ethical as they make out.

"I do wonder how Britain ever became Great with so many idiots on its shores! "

That's offensive MP.

I imagine you wouldn't dare come up with that sort of stuff in public very often but feel very comfortable coming up with this on a forum because you think there's no comeback and it's somehow OK. It's not.

What do you think of racists generally? Do you consider yourself to be one? Do you think it's OK to say things like that about my country? About my people?

I don't.

I think you are right mariepuree.

my gran was an immigrant in the late 1940s (from east germany) and now feels the same way as that gillian duffy

'Until Jo Public is prepared to pay a fair price for it buys,'

And Jo Public is being paid less and less compared to cost of living, too.

Can I please pay a fair price for bank services and fuel to keep my children somewhat warm rather than line the pockets of teh few?

I might have enough left over then to be more 'ethical' in other choices.

Its only called great(er) cos its bigger than Brittany (lesser Britian) anyway. Nowt to do with the people or how good the island is or anything.

Catinthehat2

Britain does have many idiots on its shores. That is not the same as saying all of the people are idiots because that is certainly not the case. I do say that in public also because it is the truth. To say that there are no idiots in Britain is laughable. All countries have them.

The reason that Britain was Great is because it exploited weaker nations than itself, especially those who could not defend themselves against their more advanced weapons.

Your people? How do you define that then? How long must have one resided in the UK to adorned that endearing sentiment as being one of your people? I was born here by the way even though my parents are immigrants so guess that counts me out, doesn't it?

A brief history of British immigration:

the Celts and Picts
the Romans
the Jutes, the Angles and the Saxons
Vikings
Normans
Huguenots
Jews
Irish
Poles
Indians
West Indians
Pakistanis
Bangladeshis
Ugandan Asians
Chinese
Africans
Eastern Europeans...

It's a long history of multiculturalism.

When it comes to ethnic purity we're a bit of a lost cause

I think what "counts you out" is your attitude.

I can say that whatever country I was born in (or my parents were born in) I would not be so disrespectful to that country or my fellow countrymen.

If I wasn't born in a country but lived there, I wouldn't feel comfortable to make such disrespectful comments about that country and it's countrymen.

I still find your words offensive.

Your birth data is irrelevant - it's your attitude which comes over.

'I can say that whatever country I was born in (or my parents were born in) I would not be so disrespectful to that country or my fellow countrymen.

If I wasn't born in a country but lived there, I wouldn't feel comfortable to make such disrespectful comments about that country and it's countrymen.'

But if mariepuree's parents were immigrants in the 1960s, then she's was probably born here, in which case her countrymen are other native Brits?

What, so now we're not allowed to say bad things about our countries?

I'm British and I can say with some conviction that a lot of British people are, in fact, idiots.

And would be interesting to hear MP on these questions which she has ignored:

"What do you think of racists generally? Do you consider yourself to be one?"

And would be worth reading TArantula's post about the origins of Great in GB. You might learn something, not least about being an egregious twonk. I've left some links to definitions to help you.

MARIEPUREE It's got nothing to do with colour, most Eastern Europeans are white. Mass immigration from EU countries is being discussed because it effects the lives of some of the people of this country. We now see a situation where some Polish people are more educated than English people (thanks our schooling system, where 1 in 4 boys comes out of school and cannot read or write properly) and may get jobs ahead and instead of local people. What politicians fail to tell the electorate is that they can do nothing about immigration from EU countries,(some 28) and that another 8 countries wish to join the EU. and there populations are 157 million. so a points system makes little or no difference to the immigration statistics.

NINJACAT The next thing you'll be calling the English are 'mongrels' I've heard this before. Most MNs would not dream of slagging of the Irish, the Scots, Welsh etc, but feels very comfortable in doing down the English. Orson Wells was right "English Socialists are the only ones who hate their own country". It really gets on my nerves.

"I do wonder how Britain ever became Great with so many idiots on its shores!"

Listen to yourself. Not sure how you think that is an acceptable thing to say. What ever happened to patriotism? - if the place is that bad and full of so many 'idiots' why is it such a popular choice for so many. So fed up of people being on such a downer about this country - ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE.

You can't blame people for being slightly miffed at times, people who have paid into the system for so many years being told by our media what a bad deal they are getting - people that know no different to question what they read.

And why does the concerns about immigration have to come down to an issue of race? I don't think it is... Where do you live M?... Have you recently tried to get on the tube in rush hour in London? I had to all through my pregnancy. It was horrendous and dangerous - something has to give as services are under pressure - you can't deny it.

I've emigrated to Canada and some of the emigration/ex-pat web sites are full of frankly racist people who are busy trying to "get away from all the immigrants". Strange really because the countries they usually are trying to move to are founded almost entirely on immigrants, and of course that's what they will themselves become.

Sadly there are immigrant hating people in most countries. There is a lot of racism and xenophobia about.

Also many many people say very negative things about the UK, and very few of them are immigrants, or have immigrant heritage. When we said we were thinking of moving I was amazed at how many people (many of whom we were meeting for the first time) immediately started to say bad things about the UK, assuming that we were moving because it's too crowded/too many immigrants/too much crime etc etc. In fact I love England (and Wales too, I don't know Scotland or Northern Ireland very well) and would be happy to return.

I agree with mariepuree.

I'm an immigrant, but because I a) am white and b) speak with an English accent, nobody questions my right to be here.

On the other hand many 3rd and 4th generation Brits from immigrant families are treated with disdain and disrespect because of the colour of their skin, even though they are ostensibly (sp?) more 'British' than me. It's just racism wearinga different hat.

Oh and BTW, I love this country and I love living here, so no direspect from me

"We now see a situation where some Polish people are more educated than English people (thanks our schooling system, where 1 in 4 boys comes out of school and cannot read or write properly) and may get jobs ahead and instead of local people."

But yet, immigrants with no English come here and their children thrive in schools which are usually in socially deprived areas and end up with a very good education. I speak from personal experience as I went to one of these sink schools but still ended up getting a degree and a well paid professional job.

Immigrants come expecting to work hard and don't have a sense of entitlement like many of the indigenous population. If 1 in 4 boys in school are leaving school not able to read and write, what on earth are their parents doing about it, especially as 3/4 of these boys life is not actually spent in school?

I love the UK and it is wonderful in terms of the opportunities available to people to move ahead. My parents came in the 1960s and ended up owning their house,despite working at low paid jobs. Why do so many of the indigenous population who have had more opportunities available to them, still expect the government to hand them a house to live in?

It is a matter of attitude and having a sense of entitlement is what cripples those who blame immigrants for their own low self-esteem and lower status in life.

MP -

that post sounds as if it came from a different person and I would struggle to disagree with any of it. Factual, genuinely felt, unemotive and from someone I would enjoy talking to (not actively avoid) IRL.

Thank you.