Guardian comes out for Lib Dems

[TheHeathenOfSuburbia]

Goodness me, I wasn't expecting that!

Looky here

That's going to be in tomorrow's paper, right? Apologies if I'm a day behind....

EDIT: 'the Green' = 'the Green Party'

highlander - I wouldn't say the millionaires tax and scrapping tax credits for top 20% of earners constitutes a move to the right. Politicians cannot help their upbringings. It is their plans for the country that matter not how much their parents earned.

The fact that cameron and clegg had good educations is a positive thing as it means they will want to raise standards in state education. I think the difference is that the lib dems will raise more of the money through tax whereas the tories will try and get money from the private sector which I'm a bit suspicious of as the private sector will want something tangible back..they are not going to give money to schools from the goodness of their hearts.

Highlander - why would the lib dem plan to raise the tax threshold to 10000 be bad news for low earners?

I think the lib dems are offering plenty for low earners including the local income tax instead of council tax.

Under the current labour govt the gap between rich and poor has apparently widened.

The tories have never pretended to help the poorest.

snowlady- I think child poverty has shrunk under labour. The gap between rich and poor matters but so does lifting people out of poverty. The old relative vs absolute poverty argument.

The fact that the Tories don't aspire to help the poor as you put it is alarming, isn't it.

How can Nick Clegg and david Cameron (and it will be a Tory/Lib Dem alliance) have any concept of how it feels to be amongst the lowest earners in the UK? Tony Blair harped on about education,education,education - the 3 main party's policies are geared toward aspirational people. There is a HUGE section of the UK population who are not aspirational. They simply want a decent wage, a warm clean house and enough money left over for a summer holiday. They want to be looked after by the NHS and look forward to a decent pension when they retire. All the talk of tax breaks simply does not detract from the situation that the main parties continue to move to the right, leaving no mainstream political party 'speaking' for the most impoversihed, vulnerable people in our society.

Agree with Janos, can't see anything good about this. In most constituencies a vote for Lib dem will be equivalent to a tory vote. And as Polly Toynbee says in today's Guardian - if Cameron wins his overall majority, all chance of electoral reform is lost for years to come. I think the Guardian are being incredibly naive.

Highlander - are you proposing to start a new left wing party as the accusations you are making against the conservatives and liberals would apply to new labour too - tony blair had a priviledged upbringing. If you want to start a party further to the left you will be better off with a fairer voting system so you may as well vote lib dem to get it.

I read the papers but there is no way I would make my decisions on who to vote for by reading the papers. They are so biaised and this election it has been obvious the press under murdoch's guidance want a Tory win and to stop the rise of the Liberal Democrats.

pinkteddy - isn't polly tonybee a new labour supporter. I find her quite infuriating to watch and if she told me to do one thing I'd definitely do the opposite .

sorry, my accusations do apply to Labour too.

It's time I went on the street corner and peddled Socialist Worker, just like the 80's.........

I am currently addicted to this website www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/ to inform my hourly wrangling with my conscience, but don't know how reputable it is, though it does give off an aura of authority and impartiality. Anybody else use it?

Wem - I think you might be same constituency as me. I am going round in circles as I'm not taken with either Lab or LD candidate locally and am veering between voting tactically / making a pro-reform protest vote / voting for policy.

Thanks spiker.

I don't know snowlady. She is definitely no fan of Gordon Brown and has been very critical of the labour party, but has also acknowledged the positive things the labour government have achieved.

Am I missing the point, but thought it was up to the people/electorate?

Nick Clegg saying he would support the Tories, the Guardian saying they support the Lib Dems, and Yasmin Alibhai Brown on the radio this afternoon saying that the Independent may give 'power' to the Lib Dems, is all a bit arrogant?

It's up to the people. Democracy. One person. One vote.

The block vote is a distant memory

Am I the only one not to be that surprised?
I think that its important to remember that Guardian readers almost certainly value civil liberties more highly relative to interventionist economic policies compared to other groups of labour/left voters. On that ground, the Lib Dems are almost certainly much closer to the 'core' guardian reader than Labour.
The Guardian is definitely liberal left - and Labour really has lost its libertarian instincts and gone for a much more authoritarian approach.

Very good point Takver.

Takver - your thesis is interesting.

I think that's true, Takver

Plus the concept of a liberal left is only really taking root in some ways - the Lib Dems have seen themselves that way for ages, but others have been obsessed with where the LDs might stand on a left-right scale. It's not about narrow positioning on a scale, though - you can't say the LDs are left or right of Labour. It's about the liberal left vs. the statist, more authoritarian left.

Takver's right, Guardian's never been Labour Labour, always had liberal with a small 'l' values.

As for the Lib Dems being liberal left, some of them may be, but others are serious free-marketeers. Let's not forget that Maggie's economic policies were essentially liberal, definitely not Tory.

The Lib Dems are much more united as a party than people think. Again, the cliché that "half the party are this way, half are that way" is to misread their philosophy - which is basically liberal fairness.

laissez faire economics allied to social liberalism ie non-interference in the private life of individuals.

no - there are no champions of laissez-faire economics in the Lib Dems.

got to go to bed now...

Yes, lots of attractive things about the Lib Dems. Labour are in trouble.