Guardian comes out for Lib Dems

[TheHeathenOfSuburbia]

Goodness me, I wasn't expecting that!

Looky here

That's going to be in tomorrow's paper, right? Apologies if I'm a day behind....

wem, does it have a large student population?

yeah- vote for who you want to win! All this scare mongery about hung parliaments. What's so wrong with 2 of the three large parties working things through. It is not like we have 20 little parties from which they will have to form a coalition.

Thanks, that's interesting, hadn't quite got my head around what to expect, but that makes it clearer.

vesela - there is a small local university/FE college in the area, though there is a much larger student population elsewhere in the city, so not sure where the students actually live, iyswim. What would a student population mean? Wouldn't they just have a postal vote for their home constituency?

Lots of students vote in their university towns, which is what helped the Lib Dems win a quite a few such seats last time, often by surprise (e.g. Manchester Withington). This time it looks as if the student turnout is going to be higher, and very Lib Dem - the polls are underestimating it because they still have to weight according to their traditional factors that say 18-24 year olds don't turn out.

there was also a big increase in last-minute registrations from younger age groups (I hate using that phrase!)

Wem - I'm assuming a lot here but ... you basically have a week, no, less, to organise an anti-Con campaign in your are, select the "tactical" candidate, inform everyone, get them on board, get them out ... .

It's not going to happen, really ...

so you should probably vote for who you want - unless there are clear indications in your area of some other course of action ...

To adopt an old, old phrase - have fun exercising 1/10th of your portion of your democratic rights.

GReat. I think Murdoch could lose control of his grip on deciding who governs Britain. That is one reason to vote Lib Dem (or Lab). Stick it to Uncle Rupert.

So agree with you there, TDiddy.

Animula Just started a thread to say that I have never voted Lib Dem before but considering it as there is something satisfying about backing people who joined a party never expecting to win/be in Govt.

animula/snowlady* - just been thinking about the maths of this a bit.

If we had had an essentially two party system at the 2005 election (i.e by LibDem and New Labour joied together) then the Lib-Lab party would have had 57.4% of the vote and 64.8% of the seats. Conservatives got 32.3% of the vote and 30.7% of the seats.

With the boundary changes already implemented since the 2005 election which have reduced the number of Labour seats and a further evening up of the size of constituencies that the Tories already plan to implement (because Labour seats are on average smaller number of constituents than Conservative seats) I think the percentage of seats won would reflect quite closely the percentage of votes.

In effect keeping our current first past the post system with a merger of Lib-Lab merger and an equalisation of the number of constituents in each constituency would effecively deliver a proportional representation Parliament but without giving small extreme right/left wing parties the chance of gaining seats.

For this reason, I suspect after this election if Lib Dems and Labour merged we would see a sudden drop in interest in proportional representation.

btw the Lib Dems have now produced an official "print-your-own" leaflet for anyone unable to get hold of any others to deliver.

can be downloaded from here

It will be interesting to see how many Labour supporters stop reading the Guardian now... I'm with SpringHeeledJack - annoyed but strangely liberated...

Thanks Vesela.

I should say that none of the leaders scare me. All good guys. It is just that the Tories are fundamentally about looking after 30pc of the population (including me) and I don't find that so appealing.

BeenBeta - Drop in interest from LibDems? -- I wonder? I doubt it, though; I can't imagine them agreeing with Lab for any great length of time, and on enough issues.

Drop in interest from electorate? -- I hope not. My interest in PR is motivated partly by Greeniness. I really want environmental issues up there, at the moment they are electoral death in the first past the post system. In coalition politics, it's more of a reality. Along with a whole load of other things that are necessary but unpopular.

Can always read the Telegraph for free online.

I don't think you can read anything into the MN polls. MNers are a small group of people and tbh I see mainly posts for and against Lab or Cons. Very little for the LibDems which is why I was surprised by the MN poll results. That said I DO think NC came across better on the TV debates than either GB or DC but that's just me. I see on other websites though that opinion is for DC on the TV debates.
I didn't know Justine was married tO a(the) editor of the Guardian.

Guardian has kind of shot itself in the foot with their big spread on Nick Clegg. he fairly candidly discussed his priveleged upbringing, and the article revealed how he has moved the Lib Dems to the right.

As a lifelong Lib Dem voter, he's lost my vote on the basis of that interview. A Tory/Lib Dem parliament would be bad news for low-earners, bad news for the NHS.........

JollyPirate- think you are right.

I think Justine's contacts are irrelevant, aren't they?

Well, goodbye me ever taking the Guardian seriously again on any political issues.

Worst sort of craven opportunism.

Janos- I don't read it like that. I think people have woken up, far, far too late in the day to the possibility that there is a chink in the 2-party bloc. And that there is a teeny tiny opportunity of changing that for good.

It's been so far off the political radar that I think people just didn't see it.

PR would be an astonishing thing to achieve, and would represent the broadly centre-left majority of this country far more accuratley than the FPTP, 2-party hegemony.

And I suspect it would represent the Guardian readers a lot better - who are porbably a centre-left coalition.

Sorry, but I can't see anything good about this. Not because I dislike the lib dems (I have voted for them a couple of times) but because I think Nick Clegg is essentially Tony Blair mk2. That is not a good thing. Very much style over substance.

However, you're probably right about Guardian readers animula, judging from the comments on the editorial.

On a personal level, I actually feel quite sad.

Janos, why can't someone have style and substance? Have you heard him getting into the issues in interviews etc.? (he does, and actually shows he's thinking about the questions).

Yes, of course someone can have style and substance. I have heard him (started paying attention after the first debate) and IMO he has the former but not the latter.

He is smooth, good at PR and knows the right things to say (as was TB).

Hasn't he said that he's taken the party to the right?

BTW it goes without saying that Justine's connections are not relevant. I believe women are allowed to hold different opinions to their husbands nowadays

animula - I read somewhere that the Green had already suffered a drop in support due to the rise of Lib Dems. The Lib Dems have a green policy agenda which I admit I am against but as a Tory supporter I am still comfortable with some of their other policies. All politics is a compromise and a meger of coalition interests. The Tory party has a broad range of opinions within it.

Could you feel comfortable with your green concerns being supported in a mainstream Lib-Lab party that gets say 40 - 55% of the vote and seats?