Gordon Brown said he wanted to limit foreign student numbers - is he MAD?

[SethStarkaddersMum]

In the debate last night.
WTF?

Universities are one of our few successful industries at the moment.

For anyone who doesn't know about the economics of foreign students, an overseas (outside the EU) student who comes to a British university pays fees that are massively more than the home student fees (around 9k, typically, though more at Oxbridge.)
In addition they put around £7k into the local economy (again, far more in places where the cost of living is higher, like London).
Foreign students are not subsidised by the British taxpayer. They make us money.

This would be about as stupid as limiting tourist numbers.

Why does he want to f*ck up our universites? Why? Why?

Please someone tell me this is not what it looks like and he means something completely different.

it's not what it looks like. He won't be talking about uni students they generate too much income. He'll be talking about short term courses run by private colleges

I was surprised at that too, SSM - I wondered if he really meant the "students" who join Muslim extremist cells here (but there aren't enough of those to make much difference to the immigration figures?)

Why not? There doesn't seem to be a problem axing the most successful sector (finance) with higher taxes and bonus caps.

There is a a lot of abuse in the student visa system, typically at the short course level.

I think this is what he's talking about, tbh.

Countries like Ireland also already have much stricter limits compared to the UK. Britain is very generous, allowing students to bring their entire families over, allowing adult dependents the ability to work, access to teh NHS for the whole family, etc.

And not all these students are paying and contributing, some are having their education paid by scholarships/bursaries and are not paying council tax.

I think it was probably the visa system. I've seen that before, as it is very prone to abuse, where any old numpty can set up a "college" and then start bringing in all sort of individual on a student visa.

I agree though - foreign students pretty much fund universities. The one I went to had something like 1/5 foreign student, and really pushed to bring them in, as the fees they pay were much higher (around £10k a year) than local students. They were charged what it actually costs.

Yes I thought it was an odd statement. The UK exports a lot of edcational services.

Go to a place like Oxford and look at the numbers of foreign students in Oxford University, Oxford Brookes University, tens of thousands of foreign language students who come to learn English, plus the foreign children at the boarding schools there.

All we have to do is keep track of them, make sure they go only on accredited courses at accredited institutions and make sure they leave the country afterwards. There are obvioulsy abuses of the student visa system going on and that is down entirely to the failure of immigration policy and border control by this Govt. Stopping students coming here is ridiculous though.

Cote, in what bizarre looking-glass world has the finance sector proved itself to be the most successful? Did you miss the bailouts?

I do hope you're right, Wolfcub/Expat.
And that any tightening up brought in to deal with the abuses won't be so slow/inflexible as to deter genuine students.

I was surprised at that too, but like some pps said I think it's the students who flock to the "visa colleges" rather than the proper universities. You know the ones who come to these "colleges" offering dubious qualifications and then conveniently go missing. I think a some of them were suspended and things tightened up a bit in the last year.

Financial sector is about 10% of total GDP, the largest contribution to exports, and has the highest growth. Yes, it is (was?) the most successful industry in the UK.

"some of them were suspended and things tightened up a bit in the last year."

Indeed. Some colleges were shut down, too many students never attended, just arrived in UK and then disappeared.

I can imagine it is a concern for all the legitimate colleges teaching English etc, as those from abroad who intend to do this will target the remaining colleges, until, one by one, they are shut down.

I think they have moved towards a refundable deposit, which will limit the numbers somewhat, but part of the limiting is to prevent terrorists, and we know that the Taliban and others get funding from drugs trafficking, so however high the deposit amount might be set, there might still be a chance.

I guess it will then depend on the judgement of British Embassy staff interviewing the candidates before granting a visa.

Webdude, I did some googling some time back when I heard about someone's college closing down and came across a forum used by its students. It looks like the owners are completely aware of what most of the students intend to do, and it is these kind of students that they bank on for profitting off. What the owners do is sell them the visa letter, stating that the candidate has been registered as a student and due to attend from X date. From how the discussion was going it looked like the college and the classes though legitimate, was actually a front for the more lucrative deal of visa letters. There were names of people mentioned too (owners), and how they have started with nothing and still unable to even converse properly in English have gone on to make millions in a short time. Quite eye-opening I tell you. I think there was a BBC documentary about this as well.

I just wish I trusted Brown to deal with the abuses without adding to the bureaucracy massively for everyone else - this Labour govt has such a track record of doing that (eg with the CRB checks for everyone to deter a tiny number of convicted paedophiles....)

Thanks for the post, megapixels. Yes, SSM, they do go OTT (or word a law so poorly that it can be misused - thinking back to the elderly chap arrested at that Labour party conference in Brighton, one year, on some terrorism clause).

Hang on, hasn't absconding students / non-genuine colleges already been dealt with? University colleagues have been talking about how all students must be regularly signed off as 'actually studying' (which has apparently cost some Universities huge amounts in updating their admin IT systems).

GrendelsMum - yes you are right. My DW does a bit of part time lecturing in a University and she says that on the course she teaches they are really hot on this isuse. She has to immediately report any student who does not turn up to a lecture or seminar. It is more like registration now.