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Original poster

Going into a care home? to pay or not to pay..?

86 replies

onebadbaby · 22/04/2010 21:19

Following the election debate- was just wondering what others think about this- conservatives are proposing that old folk pay 8k upfront now and then pay nothing if they do need a care home later, Labour propose wave the fees after the first 2 years, God knows what the Lib Dem policy is- they don't appear to have one.

I think I like labours policy best- it seems the fairest.

OP posts:
Portofino · 23/04/2010 10:37

Hmmm. IMHO, if you can support yourself, you do. If you can't then the State helps out. If you can pay for care, then presumably you get more choice. There will be the few that HAVE cash and don't put any aside so they get an unfair freeby when they are old (but how many people are genuinely like this?)

My colleagues in Belgium tell me that apparently if you have not made suitable provision for your old age, the cost/debt of residential care stays with the family down to the 2nd generation ie your grand kids would still be paying the bill. I don't know the ins and outs of this. I think many more families look after the elderly themselves.

Interestingly, the Flemish region has introduced an extra "tax" - every working person must pay an extra 25 euros into the pot each year to pay for care at home services for the elderly and disabled. This is very unpopular.

expatinscotland · 23/04/2010 10:37

'People come in from other countries and do not have a penny to their names and have contributed nothing to this country. Yet they come in,suffer ill health,use our NHS system and then get free nursing home places that we pay for.'

How? Under what visa? Because if you are not an EU/EEA national, then you need a visa to come and live here.

Or are you talking about EU nationals? Because if you are, there are actually more elderly Brits emigrating to EU nations, particularly the warmer ones, and causing strain on their resources, having never contributed to their economies.

That's part of being in the EU.

Original poster
onebadbaby · 23/04/2010 10:39

expat
So who is going to pay for you or your parents care if you need it??

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 23/04/2010 10:44

'So who is going to pay for you or your parents care if you need it??'

My parents are going to pay for their own care. They live in a country (the US) where you have to or you face a very grim reality.

They have ensured they can pay for their own care for a very very long time. We, my sister and I, do not see their finances or assets in terms of something to leave to ourselves upon their deaths. They gave us much in our lives. We want them to use all their resources on themselves.

I will likely die in penury, hopefully before needing nursing care, if I live to any old age at all. May chose to end my own life before such an event if it is possible.

So, you're willing to pay higher taxes for a more 'fair' system?

Original poster
onebadbaby · 23/04/2010 10:45

I think I probably would- within reason of course.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 23/04/2010 10:45

Yet DH and I have always 'worked hard' and 'scrimped'. And I'm not here moaning about how 'unfair' it all is.

That's life!

trice · 23/04/2010 10:50

It seems like madness to me that people expect to keep their homes and get the state to pay for their care. Your assets are money that you have earned and they should be used to pay for your upkeep however you choose to do that.

The state is there as a safety net to help those in need and protect the vulnerable not as a way to protect peoples inheritance.

Perhaps more people should look after their own families if they want the money from the estate.

MissAnneElk · 23/04/2010 10:55

I can't see how the tory proposition of a one of payment of £8000 is going to work. If residential care costs between £21000 to £53000 per year (and I don't know the cost, I'm just basing it on what alypaly says and she has some personal experience)then that £8000 is going to need a lot of topping up.

I'd love to be able to leave our house to our DDs, but the reality is that if we need to use it to fund our care then I think we should. It's unlikely we will have any hard cash to leave them. I suspect that will have to be frittered away supplementing our shit pension.

I suppose we could tell the DDs if they look after us, then they can have the house. I'd hope they'd choose to put us in a nice home with the proceeds of the house and make their own way in life.

longfingernails · 23/04/2010 11:08

MissAnneElk

It is an insurance scheme.

Those who cannot afford to pay for care because they have no assets will continue to get it free.

If you have assets, you can pay an INSURANCE premium of £8000 when you retire. They say only 1 in 5 will take it up.

That means they have £40k, plus the interest earned (which will be a lot over the intervening years), to spend on care for each person who needs it - if their 1 in 5 assumption holds.

If you don't need care you don't get the £8000 back - just like you don't get house insurance back if your house isn't burgled this year.

trice · 23/04/2010 11:12

I would much rather die with a bit of dignity than go into a home. This is my personal opinion. I don't view life in a nursing home as worth living. If I can't look after myself and my family can't care for me then I shall be opting out.

I am sure that some people like living in their old peoples homes but I spent a summer working in one when I was a student and it looked like the seventh circle of hell to me.

EldonAve · 23/04/2010 11:18

perhaps we should consider killing off those who can't pay for their care

trice · 23/04/2010 11:27

The state should pay for care for those who want it and need it Eldonave. I am freeing up that money by my choice.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 23/04/2010 12:06

I don't understand the assumption that one will receive an inheritance, as if it's some god given right, which is really at the basis on the idea that one should expect the state to pay for one's care. THe conflict being that the house/savings should go to one's children.

People should pay for their care, but like anything else, those who are savvy, can avoid it, such as 'asset dumping.' Not sure how this could be regulated, but I know of someone who signed over their house to their children about 5 years ago, and now needs residential care, and they won't have to pay. Morally that stinks.

expatinscotland · 23/04/2010 12:07

Same here, trice.

But I certainly don't expect the taxpayer to fund my parents' care so that I can get their house.

They didn't buy their house as an inheritance to leave us.

They bought it as a shelter to make a home in which to bring us up and shelter them.

When it can no longer do that, because they need to move to another home, such as a nuring home, then it can be sold to provide them with another home.

The problem is that people don't think of a house in its primary functional role: shelter/home. Instead it's only now seen as £££.

Well, a nursing home is a home, too.

expatinscotland · 23/04/2010 12:09

Had a great visit, ilove! Thanks for asking. Was warm, for a change. Got right back into the routine fairly easily.

Was fun to drive an automatic car on the proper side again .

I'm still trying to lose the spare tire around my waist I brought home, though - too much food, sweetened tea and Sunkist soda.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 23/04/2010 12:32

Welcome to my world , although am more of a Welch's grape juice girl myself (and almond roca, and almond M & Ms, and breakfasts)

Moving back? My pattern after a visit is to get all enthused about moving back, then get caught up in day to day stuff here, do figures and work out we could afford a small shack, decide better off staying put. Until next visit....

expatinscotland · 23/04/2010 12:36

Your pattern is my pattern. Can't afford healthcare for five people is the major crux. Also the fact that if you can't afford a SUV there's a greater chance you'll die in a car accident. And the cost gets even higher. Housing with good schools, holiday/time off, etc.

So yeah, we're staying put for now.

It's not perfect, but DH gets six weeks annual leave now, we never have to worry about insurance and the school is very good.

pagwatch · 23/04/2010 12:41

We pay a fucking fortune in tax and don't begrudge a penny.
I look after my mother because after working hard all his life and never taking any benefit except child benefit my dad died in debt, still working at 74.
I gave up work to care for my son and will spend every day of my life until I am too frail, caring for him.
DH and I are incredibly lucky to have a nice home which we would like to leave to DS1 and DD so that they can try and fund DS"s full time care when I no longer can.

But I will apprently have to sell my house to care for me and or DH should we need it.

I am prepared that that is what will happen. But I can't help feeling the 'well fuck you' that seems to be being delivered by everyone who thinks this is no more than I deserve.

trice · 23/04/2010 13:25

There is not much incentive to save for old age if you will only be getting the same care as people who have not saved, with the only difference being that you have to pay for it yourself. I don't see a way around it though.

TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 23/04/2010 13:44

Does anyone know what % of elderly folk actually end up in a home? of the 8 grandparents DH and I had between us, only one died in a nursing home (and one is still coping OK in her own home).

And are any of us 'saving for old age', really? I have a pension that's worth bugger all, after paying into it for ten years (thank you, stock market), but that's with the intention to actually be able to eat, pay the gas bill etc, when I'm retired.
No-one really starts up an ISA with the intention of saving for a care home... right?

expatinscotland · 23/04/2010 14:25

How is it 'well fuck you', though, to realise the state can't afford to support people living in care homes for years and years?

There is no system that can ever do that.

Original poster
onebadbaby · 23/04/2010 15:05

I don't see how having money buys you a 'choice'?

I am saving to give my children a prosperous life- both now and in the future... but all this will be taken away from them in the event of me needing long term care.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 23/04/2010 15:10

'I don't see how having money buys you a 'choice'?'

Ever been through the system of getting a nursing home place?

Money is everything when it comes to that.

I hope you never have to find out just how much money buys choice.

You're better off teaching your children how to secure their own prosperous future and looking to securing your own rather than expecting those same children, who will likely be taxpayers, to fund it all for an ever-ageing population that will only grow in number.

pagwatch · 23/04/2010 15:14

I didn't say the system was fuck you - I said the attitude oft delivered at the same time was fuck you.

pagwatch · 23/04/2010 15:15

I am enjoying being told how expensive care is though...