We need your thoughts on Finance lessons being dropped from Schools Bill

[CatherineHMumsnet]

There is another thread debating sex education and home schooling elements of the PSHE being dropped from the Schools Bill here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/942891-Fear-for-your-children-39-s-education-under-the-Tories but we had an interesting email in from finance expert Martin Lewis pointing out that the removal of PSHE (Personal, Social, Health and Economic Education)from the Schools Bill also means that compulsory financial education has been dropped too.

What do you reckon? Do you agree as Lewis puts it: 'We're a nation that educates our youth into debt when they go to university, but never educates them about debt.'

I'd love to see your financial management SOW, te.

That is not what I asked you MmeBlueberry- I will ask you again.

If you had in your class a 13 yr old who could not read (try and imagine such a thing), would you teach them to read or would you refuse to teach them on the basis that they should know how to read, and that someone else should have taught them?

Because that is the argument you are using against teaching finance in schools.

I then asked for your stance on sex education, as the same argument has been used in the past against its inclusion in the curriculum.

You haven't answered either of the questions.

I'm not sure why.

I don't have a financial management SoW, MmeBlueberry- I don't teach it.

Or perhaps I have misunderstood you and it was an attempt at a personal comment?

To me financial education is a good idea in theory. You can talk about budgeting and debt, mortgages etc but I wonder whether those lessons will directly influence how that person behaves when they have money and responsibilities of their own.
When I was 18 I was sent a credit card through the post that I didn't even ask for, or was not aware I asked for anyway. I knew credit cards were bad and did not want to get into debt but for some silly reason I still used it. Yes I was stupid but I am not sure that any financial education would have stopped me. I was young and the future seemed a long way off and I have learnt the hard way over the years like many. I would love my kids to be more clued up than I was but also expect them to make bad choices and mistakes and learn the hard way too.
It should be taught in schools but a couple of lessons as part of PSE isn't going to make a huge impact on their attitudes to money. The biggest influence will be the examples they see in life e.g parents. Banks and other financial institutions too have a big part to play.

I think that children should be taught all about money. Commerce, economics, budgeting everything. Well, it's all the same thing really isn't it.

There are adults who ask why the government doesn't just print more money. that can't be good!

It's all part of educating. Reading, writing, maths.. of course they're the priority but understanding the world is important too.

And I think it's more important to understand finance than to study, oh I dunno - Shakespeare, for example.

How could I teach anyone to read? I am a science teacher - just like you don't teach finance ;)

The government did just print money - they called it quantitative easing. Tbh, I don't think economic theory and strategy is a suitable subject for compulsory education.

Jobhunter, you are spot on.
Getting your fingers burnt in a small way can be a good life lesson too.

Still not going to answer, Mme? Oh dear...

You expressed concern that children were illiterate earlier... Still, if your concern is limited only to the subject you teach, then why have an opinion on financial education? After all, like you said, you're a science teacher... Ah well, I'll leave that one aside. Perhaps it was a poor analogy.

Still, that does not preclude you from answering my second question about your view on the compulsory teaching of sex education. I would love to know what you think on that matter, and how it differs from the teaching of financial education?

I think economic theory is an excellent subject for compulsory education.

I have told you what I do as a parent wrt sex education.

And you were the one who brought up illiterate teenagers!

If you had in your class a 13 yr old who could not read (try and imagine such a thing), would you teach them to read or would you refuse to teach them on the basis that they should know how to read, and that someone else should have taught them?

the end product of a reading course, is, hopefully, a child that knows how to read, and is able to put that in practice.

the end product of PHSE mini-course on financial management, is not a child that knows how to manage their finances, and is not one that is able (or legally allowed even) to put that into practice. At best they may be a bit more aware (for a short while) of some financial issues. Not much point.

i think there is a strong case against th direct-mailing of credit-cards, for all kinds of reasons - they cause £80- mil of fraud for one thing.

Mme, I don't want to know your views as a parent, I want to know your views as a teacher on the inclusion of sex education in the compulsory curriculum.

I have withdrawn the first question about teaching the child to read because it was a poor analogy. (Although thanks Eggy for answering)

How convenient

"the end product of a reading course, is, hopefully, a child that knows how to read, and is able to put that in practice.

the end product of PHSE mini-course on financial management, is not a child that knows how to manage their finances, and is not one that is able (or legally allowed even) to put that into practice. At best they may be a bit more aware (for a short while) of some financial issues. Not much point."

Would it have to be a 'PSHE mini-course?' Why? Why not as part of a cross section of subjects? As I said before, 'Economic well-being' is part of the Every Child Matters framework, so has already been deemed important.

Many children have to manage finances at 16- practically all by 18. (Let's not forget that the school leavers' age is being raised to 18 very shortly.) Payslips, tax, national insurance and budgeting- what to look for in a bank account, why and how the state of the economy affects the money in your pocket; these are all relevant.

Well a cross curriculal drip feed approach is very different from pages, and more effective, IMO.

MmeBlueberry, what on earth are you talking about?

I recognised the fact that I had used a poor analogy, so withdrew the question- even though somebody else managed to answer it. You didn't seem to understand it.

I am at a loss to understand why you won't answer my question about your views on sex education as part of the compulsory curriculum, and why sex education is different from financial education?

Because I am a free thinking adult and I choose not to

Well, that makes for great debate

You forgot the 'Ner ner ner ner ner' BTW.

Whatever

Riiiiight...

This has all gone very strange. Are you ok?

Many children have to manage finances at 16- practically all by 18.

i don't think most kids do seriously manage their own finances at 18. some leave home - but the average age for leaving home is mid twenties now (exact figure anyone?) even going to university is so linked to your folks income 'financial independence' isn't what you get for a long time....

You are eligible for an overdraft/credit etc. at 18, so you reach the age of financial responsibility; even if you choose to decline the offers of credit and accept parental support IYSWIM.

Agree strongly with Martin Lewis on this one. Personally very disappointed that its been withdrawn.

If a nanny state is not letting some poor person commit suicide because they're in way over their heads and haven't realised its not too late to sort it out - then give us the nanny state.

Finance isn't something a lot of ADULTS understand - how are they supposed to teach it to their kids? Professionals are required, and parents should of course be backing them up.

How many of us can simply and clearly explain compound interest or pensions... ? Probably quite a lot of people ... but clearly they're not doing it or we wouldn't have such a low take up of pensions, or low savings rates, etc.. amongst the population.

Kids need to be taught how companies just want to sell product to make money for their shareholders. Its bigger than just personal finance IMO...

Having got myself into huge debt as a student - no financial support in terms of money OR teaching - it took me YEARS to get out of it. The pressure that comes with debt is truly crippling for some people....

School AND parents should teach us to deal with life!