Labour manifesto launch

[policywonk]

Thought we might as well get this over with

No problem brocky, they are very boring posts I know! I agree with you that there are quite a few non-headline-grabbers here that are good news (or will be if a) Labour win and b) they get implemented).

Interesting about the cancer deadlines - the whole area of target-setting in health seems to be a tortured one.

Exploding - the manifesto actually does include some explanations of how the funds will be found to pay for things. I cut those bits out because I found them boring (yes, even more boring than the stuff I actually posted)

Well they're saying the NI rise won't affect those on less than 20k (which presumably covers everyone on minimum wage), so it's not really giving with one hand and taking away with the other as far as employees are concerned.

And those people will never earn more than 20k because there won't be any jobs for them. Let's keep them in the gutter.

Think NI been done to death? All the retailers (and the rest) should not have signed the bloody letter because most of their staff not on over 20k. They're just so well paid they forgot anyone gets paid less than 20k. James Caan off Dragon's Den said they were all making a fuss over nothing (on Newsnight, whilst all the signatories were keeping their heads down). Bloody brilliant PR by the Tories and their business friends, bloody rubbish tax rise by them.

Sorry too much swearing, can you tell it made me cross?

Yeah, weve seen browns performance when it comes to honoring his election promises. All talk, no action. He'll tell you what ever you want to hear then as soon as hes in power it'll all be scrapped.

Remember the promise of a refendum on the Lisbon Treaty?

Browns election manifesto isnt worth the paper its printed on, just like all his other broken election promises and lies.

Could he tell us what Labour will do about their MP's claiming legal aid to fight expenses charges?

I swear if you asked 10 people about the lisbon treaty (except rabid Eurosceptics)they'd wonder what you were on about. Everyone accepted that Lisbon merely amended previous treaties and that a referendum was not needed, only the Irish Republic held one in the whole of Europe. Can we talk about what really matters to people?

GeorginaWorsley they're not Labour MPs anymore, so they're on their own. It is absolutely baffling though (a) why they would apply and (b) why they would get it, and Alistair Darling has said as much.

Seems to me that manifesto talks about how they are going to spend money. But, really, we all know they are planning to cut it. So, obviously, they think we are too stupid to read between the line... no surprise there.

What the working people of this country need are lower taxes so we can still afford to go to work and pay our taxes.

I think they better offer the people who are supporting the country a reason to vote for them. But, it looks unlikely. SO everyone repeat after me... "Good morning Prime Minister Cameron"

Strix reason to vote for them is that they are doing a reasonable job at getting us out of the worst economic crisis this country has faced in my lifetime and I for one believe they can continue to do that if we support them on May 6th. I can't support a Cameron/Osborne team with the same measure of confidence. I think they are playing games in this election and I dread them playing fast and loose with our economy.

Our banking system nearly collapsed and the seeds of a recovery are planted. Why jeapardise that because people fancy a change? I know it always happens after one or two terms of a government. It's like a new outfit for spring, very tempting but when you think about it, you don't really need anything new at all, it's all there in the wardrobe (if it still fits of course). Now there's a new thread...

You say all that like you haven't noticed that Labour led us into and not out of this recession. Gordon could not have stopped the global meltdown. But he could have (and should have!) better prepared us for it.

This recession is not over. No one has yet led us out. Labour handed incredible amounts of money over to the banks... and got virtually nothing in return. Gordon has not once taken responsibility for his actions. And he wants to keep on spending.

Labour is lying to us. They are planning cuts and they won't tell us what they are because we won't vote for them if they do.

If you want more debt, vote for Labour. I you want to get this problem under control before it gets worse, vote Conservative.

actually the manifesto is VERY careful not to talk about spending any money that isn't already in the budget - so no election give-away like governments of all colours usually announce.

A lot of the health stuff is already going on, a bit firmed up maybe. 'Successful' foundation trusts are already taking over 'poorly performing' trusts, for instance.

Agree edam - the manifesto is very light on new spending commitments. That's why it's a tad dull. The things that do involve new spending are pretty minor (in financial terms) and the manifesto does set out how they will be paid for.

The health section is very light, isn't it edam?

It's all stuff that's already going on. But with no extra money to spend on the NHS, what else could they say? Apart from 'oh gosh, we've realised there's no need to spend billions on expensive management consultants' perhaps... (Actually it'd be nice if they would publish that top secret report from McKinsey's.)

Wot McKinsey's report?

of course, they haven't put in their bright idea about making patients re-register with their GP every five years. Because it'll be a right royal pain in the bum. But the government - and I'm ruddy sure the Tories, too - think it will be a way of shaking up the primary care market, so GP practices can't just sit there with their registered populations. Typical bloody policy wonk bollocks that will waste lots of time and money but hey, it'll introduce a market for patients, and obviously that'll be A Good Thing for McKinsey's and all their friends who want to get into providing primary care...

I'm so cynical about the Labour party manifesto

We all KNOW they will junk half of their manifesto commitments as soon as possible. Does anyone remember the golden rule? Does anyone remember the referendum on voting?

And the commitments they don't just abandon, they twist and distort. Gordon Brown pledged not to increase taxes. So he didn't actually increase income taxes, he just removed credits (from pension funds, approximate cost to workers around 2% of their income) or increased NIC (that's not a tax doncha know).

So why would I bother to read something that is full of lies and distortions then, policy? Tell me that.

Interesting edam, had not heard about that

Top secret one where McKinsey's claim they know how to run the NHS so much better than all those ill-informed doctors and nurses. Scary stuff - bunch of management consultants deciding where to wield the axe. Because clearly people with MBAs in stating the bleeding obvious know far much more about medicine and nursing than people with qualifications and experience and far much more about one of the largest and most complex organisations in the world than the people who actually work in it...

Apparently if only they would pull their socks up, everyone could see 10 zillion patients every hour... apparently things like up to £2.4bn could be saved if all hospitals were as 'productive' as the 'best' (hey, sacking people makes your organisation so much more efficient! Now if only we could get rid of all those pesky patients cluttering up the corridors too...). And stop procedures for 'unnecessary' things like grommets, because hey, McKinsey's know far better than the sodding doctors. (The clinical evidence suggests grommets are no better than watchful waiting in general for children under three who have had glue ear no longer than three months, IIRC, but in McKinsey-land that translates to primary care trusts should never ever pay for grommets at all, no matter what the clinical judgement of the doctor who has actually seen that particular patient.)

Productivity in healthcare is an incredibly hard thing to measure. Because ultimately medicine is about people - a consultation between a health professional and a patient. It's not as simple as making widgets (and I bet people who make widgets would argue that isn't particularly straightforward either.)

Um... well I do see your point Quattro. It's a marketing brochure basically, isn't it? If they form the next govt (big 'if' obviously), this gives you an idea of the direction they'll go in. Some of it will get done. Admittedly we don't know which bits.

I'm not going to try to persuade you to read it, it's shockingly dull.

OOh that sounds scary, edam. Was it commissioned by the government? Is it likely to be acted upon?

oops, sorry PW!

Um, I mean 'ideas beloved of special advisors that don't necessarily work terribly well in the real world'... like making patients re-register with their GP every five years, because inconveniencing patients is a minor quibble when you can open up the 'market'.

yes, by the Dept of Health, they won't publish it.