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"National Security can't come at the cost of Social Security" - WTAF?

541 replies

Binnyforthewin · 09/09/2026 14:52

Surely our PM releases that without National Security there is no Social Security? One is entirely dependent on the other.

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TheLadybirdsAuntie · 10/09/2026 08:04

Greyrock79 · 10/09/2026 06:05

Benjamin Netanyahu has accused Labour of sanctioning Israel to help it win a by-election in London.

On Tuesday, Ed Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, unveiled trade restrictions against Israeli businesses operating in settlements in the occupied West Bank.
A spokesman for Mr Netanyahu, Israel’s prime minister, told GB News that sanctions had been applied “nakedly for domestic politics”.

He claimed the move was designed to increase Labour’s chances of holding on to Sir Keir Starmer’s seat of Holborn and St Pancras on Oct 8 against an expected challenge by Zack Polanski, the Green Party leader.

David Mencer, Mr Netanyahu’s spokesman, said Labour was “trying to do British politics and masquerading it as foreign policy”.

Why on Earth would you be sharing Netanyahu’s propaganda? Genuinely appalled to see someone do this to score party political points.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 08:06

dwordle · 10/09/2026 08:00

So a private company installing telecommunications is creating wealth but a state owned company doing the same isn't. State owned utilities in France own utilities in the UK are creating wealth for who exactly.

The state does create wealth and so do private companies just on different ways.

Without infrastructure and state investment the private sector can't flourish.

Has the UK flourished since leaving the EU. Losing 12 percent of our GDP has done what exactly for wealth creation other than led to more austerity which in turn has held back growth.

I'm afraid the private and state are very much joined at the hip and you'll find much of the private sector tied up with public spending.

Edited

The state cannot "create" wealth. The state supports wealth creation in many different ways. But it spends wealth. That is why "investment for growth" is a load of rubbish. Tbe private sector grows the economy. Or tries to although is finding it tricky at the moment with people running the country who don't understand economics.

As I said, Rishi is the last Chancellor we have had to really did understand the job.

BrandiedAromatics · 10/09/2026 08:35

dwordle · 10/09/2026 07:22

And you will believe a war criminal charged with genocide. A compulsive liar and a person with no regard for international law over your own government.

Benjamin Netanyahu is a nasty bit of work and we should not let harsh words interfere with good judgement.

Netanyahu has caused this situation - he continues to fail to protect those in the lands he has occupied. A report from Independent International Commission of Inquiry:

The Commission finds that the State of Israel bears legal responsibility for failing to protect Palestinian children from settler violence in the West Bank. It acquiesces in, permits and fosters a sustained campaign of settler violence against Palestinians, including children, in violation of its obligations under international humanitarian and human rights law to accord children special protection.407 Despite periodic token government statements condemning settler violence and the occasional dismantling of one or two unauthorized outposts, Israeli authorities have taken no meaningful or sustained measures to curb settler attacks. The Commission concludes, on the basis of all examined evidence, that settler violence functions not as a deviation from state policy but as a means of implementing it. Both the State of Israel and violent settler groups share and collaborate in the same strategic objectives: the entrenchment of Israeli settlement on Palestinian land, annexation of Palestinian territory and the displacement of Palestinian people from their land.

Switchnow · 10/09/2026 08:54

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 22:54

No the legislation had been passed so the Rwanda plan would have been allowed. Labour binned it in a haze of virtue signalling without a replacement plan to "smash the gangs!!!!".(hard to type that without the nasal tones of KS ringing in my ears).

So why not change that legislation before? It was obvious it wasn’t lawful in the form they initially proposed. Poor legal advice or legal advice they ignored?

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 08:56

Switchnow · 10/09/2026 08:54

So why not change that legislation before? It was obvious it wasn’t lawful in the form they initially proposed. Poor legal advice or legal advice they ignored?

There is a parliamentary process to follow unfortunately. Thats democracy for you!

Switchnow · 10/09/2026 09:00

dwordle · 10/09/2026 07:27

Actually it's a mixture, wealth is created in many ways. Do teachers not spend money? Do doctors not have an economic value? Does a blind person not support their country?

You have a distorted view on what is wealth.

And of course the state enables - or disables - wealth creation and economic value through its actions, whether that’s investment (or not) in education, infrastructure, health, or through regulation or trade or foreign policy.

Switchnow · 10/09/2026 09:01

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 08:56

There is a parliamentary process to follow unfortunately. Thats democracy for you!

Yes, the same parliamentary process that was followed after several years wasted touting a plan they knew would never happen.

BrandiedAromatics · 10/09/2026 09:07

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 08:56

There is a parliamentary process to follow unfortunately. Thats democracy for you!

No it was unlawful - ruled in the court, and upheld by the Supreme Court. Last night, I shared a video of the incompetent Chris Philp not understanding why it was a problem, on QT. Rwanda was a bad choice. It took a PM, that was an eminent lawyer to throw it out.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 09:09

Switchnow · 10/09/2026 09:01

Yes, the same parliamentary process that was followed after several years wasted touting a plan they knew would never happen.

It didnt happen because Labour got in and cancelled it just as it was ready to go. Rishi could have delayed the election so that when all the ducks were in a line we could see if Rwanda would work. The Conservatives would still have lost but at least it would have been a solution that would be proven to have worked...ideological Labour strikes again at the expense of the national interest.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 09:10

BrandiedAromatics · 10/09/2026 09:07

No it was unlawful - ruled in the court, and upheld by the Supreme Court. Last night, I shared a video of the incompetent Chris Philp not understanding why it was a problem, on QT. Rwanda was a bad choice. It took a PM, that was an eminent lawyer to throw it out.

The legislation was in place (finally). Such a shame Keir took the ideological route rather than continuing with the solution.

Switchnow · 10/09/2026 09:16

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 09:09

It didnt happen because Labour got in and cancelled it just as it was ready to go. Rishi could have delayed the election so that when all the ducks were in a line we could see if Rwanda would work. The Conservatives would still have lost but at least it would have been a solution that would be proven to have worked...ideological Labour strikes again at the expense of the national interest.

You’re not following. The previous government should have known their proposal would be unlawful. It was obvious. They should have proposed the legislative change before paying Rwanda. Had they done so, they may have put that plan in place.

The current government is entitled not to proceed with a policy from the previous government. This is totally normal.

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 09:18

BrandiedAromatics · 10/09/2026 09:07

No it was unlawful - ruled in the court, and upheld by the Supreme Court. Last night, I shared a video of the incompetent Chris Philp not understanding why it was a problem, on QT. Rwanda was a bad choice. It took a PM, that was an eminent lawyer to throw it out.

Legislation overruled it. Labour scrapped it. One thing the equivalent party got right in Australia was not to scrap a policy that completely stopped deaths at sea and boats arriving.

Even if they had opposed it heavily before the problem was resolved. And citizens will never vote it out.

BrandiedAromatics · 10/09/2026 09:21

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 09:18

Legislation overruled it. Labour scrapped it. One thing the equivalent party got right in Australia was not to scrap a policy that completely stopped deaths at sea and boats arriving.

Even if they had opposed it heavily before the problem was resolved. And citizens will never vote it out.

The Tories took years to get it resolved and it cost the country £300 million. Some of this discussion on here has made me realise why the country voted them out. Starmer put in place other measures - look at the statistics on the illegal migration in boats. It is a fact.

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 09:23

BrandiedAromatics · 10/09/2026 09:21

The Tories took years to get it resolved and it cost the country £300 million. Some of this discussion on here has made me realise why the country voted them out. Starmer put in place other measures - look at the statistics on the illegal migration in boats. It is a fact.

Well we’ll see how it goes. You might not be looking at more and more EU countries set up similar and be pleased you voted to scrap what was here, but others may feel differently.

BrandiedAromatics · 10/09/2026 09:26

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 09:23

Well we’ll see how it goes. You might not be looking at more and more EU countries set up similar and be pleased you voted to scrap what was here, but others may feel differently.

I am saying that International Law was not understood by successive Tory governments, from Johnson on, and £300 million was wasted on this scheme. EU countries may have more understanding of this - the key word is defoulement - Philps certainly didn't understand this at QT.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 09:29

Switchnow · 10/09/2026 09:16

You’re not following. The previous government should have known their proposal would be unlawful. It was obvious. They should have proposed the legislative change before paying Rwanda. Had they done so, they may have put that plan in place.

The current government is entitled not to proceed with a policy from the previous government. This is totally normal.

Im not following your argument. Correct. The legislation was in place therefore the legislation was possible. A country had to be found to be ready to go once the legislation was ready to go. This takes time. Germany is now taking up the Rwanda policy as are other EU countries.

Yes of course Keir was entitled to cancel the policy of a previous government. You would have thought a prudent government, when cancelling a workable policy, would have had something to replace it with. But as we all know we are not dealing with a prudent government. We are dealing with a group of mad hatters who are running around like headless chickens (ive slightly mangled that..hats and no heads..)

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 09:30

BrandiedAromatics · 10/09/2026 09:26

I am saying that International Law was not understood by successive Tory governments, from Johnson on, and £300 million was wasted on this scheme. EU countries may have more understanding of this - the key word is defoulement - Philps certainly didn't understand this at QT.

You’ve missed the legislation that was passed.

It is doable as it is in Australia. If we ever got it together we’d be the same and never vote it out. No party would run on bringing back deaths at sea.

Greyrock79 · 10/09/2026 10:23

Real world consequences, people.

John Lewis has fallen to its worst loss since the pandemic as the department store chain took a hit from Labour’s National Insurance tax raid.
The retailer, which also owns Waitrose supermarkets, reported a loss before tax of £124m in the first half of the year, compared with £88m a year earlier.
John Lewis blamed a rise in operating costs after Labour’s increase to employers’ National Insurance contributions.

Greyrock79 · 10/09/2026 10:33

Kemi is BANG ON.

Mrs Badenoch told the BBC’s Today programme on Thursday: “We have a problem in this country – we are addicted to welfare.
“We spend more on it than education and defence combined. That is obscene and we need to turn things round.”

Binnyforthewin · 10/09/2026 10:35

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 09:09

It didnt happen because Labour got in and cancelled it just as it was ready to go. Rishi could have delayed the election so that when all the ducks were in a line we could see if Rwanda would work. The Conservatives would still have lost but at least it would have been a solution that would be proven to have worked...ideological Labour strikes again at the expense of the national interest.

Except now Labour are going to launch a Rwanda style scheme. Of course it can't actually be Rwanda for political reasons so will be the DOC or Uganda.

OP posts:
ShitHoleDweller · 10/09/2026 10:40

Andy Burnham did the whole country a favour at yesterday's PMQs. He finally said the quiet part out loud. For our new Prime Minister, social security (aka welfare) comes above Britain's national security.

Since becoming Conservative leader, I have warned repeatedly that the Labour Party has become the Welfare Party. Keir Starmer had already taken them a long way down that road, but Burnham isn't changing direction. If anything, he is dragging Labour further to the Left as he chases voters who have drifted to the Green Party.

The first duty of every government is the defence of the country, not paying more benefits.

Labour have forgotten that government involves choices. Andy Burnham wants to spend more and more on welfare, while acting as if somebody else can pick up the bill for our national security.

Labour's own Welfare Secretary, Pat McFadden, admitted in private WhatsApp messages leaked this summer that 'every' conversation he has with Labour MPs begins: 'Who can we tax to spend more on benefits?'

That is not an economic strategy. It is an addiction to spending other people's money. And, as with any addiction, eventually you cannot get enough of other people's money.

Labour is running out of money quickly. Just this week, Britain's third biggest taxpayer, Chris Rokos, announced he was leaving the country, taking his £330million a year in taxes with him. That's the equivalent of more than 38,000 average UK taxpayers.

Entrepreneurs such as Rokos who started businesses, took risks, mortgaged their homes and created jobs, are deciding Britain is no longer worth the trouble.

We should care about that, not because wealthy people deserve special treatment, but because Britain needs people who create businesses, employ others and pay taxes here. Before government can redistribute wealth, somebody has to create it.

The same basic truth applies to welfare. Conservatives will always support a strong safety net for those who genuinely need it. But we oppose a system that allows people who should be working to choose not to, while expecting those who do work to pay ever more to support that system. It's a simple question of fairness.

Welfare reform and funding our nation's defence properly must not be treated as unrelated concerns. They are about what kind of country we want to live in.

It's why, unlike Labour, I do have a plan to get defence spending to 3 per cent of GDP by 2030. It means reinstating the two-child benefit cap, because people on benefits should have to make the same choices on having children as those who aren't.

It means cutting housing allowance, because poorer taxpayers shouldn't pay for people on housing benefits to live in areas they could never afford. It means removing the tax exemptions for the Motability leasing scheme, because that scheme is being abused by people who don't need the Government to pay for their car.

These plans are fully costed, proportionate and based on fairness. We are doing the hard work required to turn promises into policies that can actually be delivered.

Reform might claim they have plans, but they are too mired in scandal and fighting each other to deliver anything.

I understand why some voters might hear that and point to our record in government. The Conservatives made mistakes – saying otherwise would be ridiculous. But I am the leader of the Conservative Party now, and I will take the difficult decisions, even when people tell me they are politically inconvenient.

Britain cannot keep taxing the people who create wealth to fund an ever-larger welfare state, while neglecting the Armed Forces that keep us safe.

The choice for voters now is between a Labour Party that wants to pour more and more of your money into benefits, and a Conservative Party determined to restore our national security.

A government has many responsibilities. But before it can promise everything else, it must protect the country.

For me, national security always comes first.

Worrall20 · 10/09/2026 10:44

Frequency · 10/09/2026 00:35

How does this explain the success of the Nordic model?

The Nordic model is a free market capitalism?

5128gap · 10/09/2026 12:28

Worrall20 · 09/09/2026 15:56

It was PMQ’s. Burnham is so out of his depth it is embarrassing.

Is he? That quote seems to me a perfectly accurate and reasonable response to a suggestion of cutting HB. If people can't pay their rent, they will become homeless as will their children. It costs a lot of money to provide temporary accommodation, more than would be saved. Plus landlords who rely on this tax payer subsidy won't be delighted by it either.
What was Badenoch's response? Did she offer a compelling counter argument that explained why Burnham was wrong to say this about HB? Or was it in fact her who is out of her depth when options were explored beyond her repetition of 'cut welfare'?

NullaEffugium · 10/09/2026 12:54

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 00:24

Well you were the one saying wouldnt it be nice if we joined up with other defence manufacturers and I agreed. Shame theres a penalty for us to do so. Perhaps they could pay us instead. Or both of us look to our own national interest and decide its a good idea to rearm Europe in the best and most practical way possible. Rather than being...again...ideological about it.

Actually that was me. Paying our fair share towards common defence isn’t a penalty ffs.

NullaEffugium · 10/09/2026 13:07

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 00:28

The private sector drives wealth creation. Not the public sector.

The private sector is made up of businesses. So helping businesses will always help the economy. Why would you argue otherwise. You seek to be mistaking the "wealthy" for people who create wealth.

Edited

The private sector drives the growth of private wealth.

However, supporting businesses doesn’t necessarily drive a strong economy or a high GDP. It can actually cause a drop in GDP.

GDP = C + I + G + NX

The contribution of private businesses to GDP is I and NX

If you prioritise I such that C or G drop too far, your GDP goes down. Example, slashing taxes on businesses might increase I, but it will definitely decrease G. Maybe it will balance out, or increase GDP or maybe not. Helping businesses doesn’t always help the economy. It depends on the knock on effects on the other components of GDP.

I have simply said that pro business is not the same as pro growth or pro strong economy. I’ve said strengthening the economy is more complex than simply helping businesses make more profit. That view point is under trickle down economics which has been disproved by the data.

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