Andy's first U turn

[Imdunfer]

He's going to have to learn to hold his tongue until things have been properly investigated.

I promise they will not be released.

There is no way we can find that will stop them being released. They will have to be realised, there's nothing I can do. There is no space for more prisoners.

We've found a way to stop them being released.

We've found spaces not to release others as well.

Plus ça change.........

Labour would be critical anyway of the same if they were in opposition.

But they’re not. And Badenoch must be slipping because she isn’t either.

And that’s your issue, politics is gotcha and games. Your witty little comment and laughing emoji, really showed me, made me look stupid. Demonstrating a startling lack of insight about your position but Ha gotcha, you win, I lose. Politics is about winners and losers and that attitude is why, as a country, we all lose.

Politics should be complicated and hard, it’s about running a country, educating children, seeing to the needs of health, education and the economy. That’s hard.

You seem to want it to be all laid out, in simple terms with no complexity, and most of all you want your side to win and the other side to look small and stupid.

Of course Badenoch is critical of the government, that’s her job. The leader of the opposition should hold the government to account and scrutinise them. I WANT her to do a good job as that’s essential for democracy.

@Imdunfer @Greenleavesandsunshine is mostly correct. There should not be a dictator but there should be clarity of purpose and policy. Burnham should not keep bowing to public opinion and should not keep making contradictory announcements from his office.

It’s clear the sentencing policy when the two were sentenced is not the same as now. They were convicted of manslaughter as are many many others in prison. Either they include manslaughter for consideration for early release, or they don’t. Picking on two prisoners for “special” ie less favourable, consideration does not feel like a justice policy that is fair. I can see legal wrangling on the horizon. I don’t see how they can be recategorised either. They are serving the sentence they were given and presumably cannot be retried. Plus other deaths caused by manslaughter are less important are they? Even someone’s child?

Knee jerk policies are poor politics and Burnham needs to learn that leadership is not just about being liked and popular.

I agree @MeetMeOnTheCorner there needs to be clarity of purpose and policy within Government. A strong leader who can take difficult decisions knowing his Cabinet and Party are behind him. We don't want decisions taken because the left wing back benchers need to be kept on side. I don't see a unified PLP - where are we on Defence? Is there more money or not? Yes, we know the 'difficult decisions need to be made' on Welfare message but what does that mean?

And Labour supporters are critical of KB. There’s no it’s complex and hard understanding of changes in position. They try to capitalise on it.

There’s more scrutiny in power but they enjoyed criticising the last gov, so it’s now them in the spotlight.

All rather lengthy just to say you think you're better than everyone else. It doesn't work like that. You've said something and nothing.

@Fluffyholeysocks After the chancellor resigned from his previous role as Defence Secretary, not finding money for defence would be seen as a considerable failure. However Burnham will promise anything and in the meantime Ang adds costs to business with employment contract laws. We hear Labour want more employment but then prefer the union model which piles on costs.

Yes and this is from the people who insist they know more about politics than others from different political disciplines. What is so hard to fathom about the leader of the opposition and the press, plus voters putting the government under the spotlight?

I agree to a large extent, it’s the knee jerk rather than the U turn that is a cause for concern. There’s a fine line between listening, reacting and being led. The thing that irritates me is treating some prisoners differently because the person they killed is well known, but that’s politics. Early days though.

Apparently, there is a lot of work going on with the PLP AB has appointed a large number of Parliamentary Private Secretaries to try to control the backbenchers and he has a better political touch than the managerial Starmer.

I agree that leaders don’t need to be liked and popular but I fear we might be in the minority these days and AB might be riding the wave of easy popularity.

I put forward two points of view, it’s for you to agree or disagree with either point. Is it an insult to imply I think my point is correct? It’s not better it’s just different.

@Greenleavesandsunshine There may well be other cases that are equally as bad but the police look after their own. That’s why we are now hearing about it. They have a publicity machine but other people don’t. I dislike politics based on who shouts the loudest.

He asked for a review of the policy which seemed to be at odds with both public opinion and what a decent society would want.
Despite those that may not wish to hear it, it is a legacy of 14 years of Tories and what they did to the criminal justice system and prison and probation pertaining to this thread.
AB led the devolution for NPS manchester and understands the issues.

All 43 chief Constable have written to him.
it is an emotive subject and I understand that other families whose loved ones have been killed by a driver are feeling the same.
However, in society there does need to be more deterrent for those who kill and injure police officers and other crown servants.
we police by consent.

Andy is saying - tell me how we change the law to make this happen.

whixh is what we need for a shit load of other laws and policies we have inherited

Another three years of Labour and that inherited line will fade. They’ll be accountable for policies.

That we are not a dictatorship and that PMs are entitled to change their mind? Not when they've not thought through the logistics of a notion, before they publicly air it. It's a school boy error, not to mention hugely unfair on PC Harper's family, if that's the backtracking in question.

But surely someone in Government could see this issue arising with early release? Why are the questions only being asked now?
Starmer's Government got off to a slow start, which was surprising as they knew they were going to get voted in. Why is everything so reactive and slow? Labour need to get on the front foot and anticipate these problems. Surely the Prisons Minister was aware?

How long are you going to give this Labour government before you stop parroting 14 years of Tory?

I agree that leaders don’t need to be liked and popular

You can’t be a leader without followers and you need to be liked and popular to have those. We’ve already seen how disastrous it is for a PM not to take the PLP with him. That’s why they wanted to trade Starmer in.

Early release has been a policy for several years, it began with Sunak. It seems odd to me that the Harper family suddenly realises the implications just as a new PM is in place. I know this will probably cause righteous indignation to rain down on me but objectively manslaughter of anyone is wrong, why do we think one life is more valuable than another? Because that’s what we’re saying here. If other prisoners who committed manslaughter are being released halfway through their sentence justice says they should all be. We don’t have a two tier legal system nor should we have.

Having lived through the 14 years of austerity where the Conservatives demolished the public sector I think that the two years Labour have been in power have seen significant improvements.
2900 additional prison places with a further 5000 on the way.
more than the Tories ever did.
does that appease your need for outcomes rather than talk?

Which is being done.
can you not see that?

What are you referring to here? What is being done?

Your post used the inherited line rather than putting onus on Labour.

It's Labour's turn to show they can deal with crises. This current one is quite something. Burnham desperately trying to find loopholes in his own party's sentencing Act. What a unified party.

I can understand it is difficult for you if you are confused by it. Many other people are not confused at all.

PMs can talk about anything they want. If it hacks the voters off, they'll let that be known democratically. Currently Burnham's net favourability is slightly positive, which is comparatively good for recent PMs.

Looks like the complexities of sentencing are difficult for you, too.

I haven't felt confused personally, but the OP talks about feeling confused and frustrated.