Labour's early prisoner release programme and why it's (still) a terrible idea

[musicalfrog]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ejwedl1gno

The family of PC Andrew Harper have rightly come out today to criticise this policy. My heart breaks for them - it really is the biggest insult.

If prisons are getting too full then build new ones - why this wasn't initiated two years ago when it was already a big problem I have no idea.

The police and CPS have gone to a lot of time and effort to get these convictions - and that ain't exactly cheap! A good number of these criminals will re-offend upon release and the process starts again - sooner than it would have if they'd served their full sentence. Not exactly saving much time and money there.

Plus the blindingly obvious fact that a larger general population will naturally bring with it a larger prison population.

You let criminals out early, the general population suffers more, you put the police and CPS under additional pressure, nobody wins except the criminals who think they have even less to fear from the process than ever before.

What exactly are Labour trying to achieve here because I can't see it?

Build the bloody prisons!

I expect the families are concerned that he has now got a cushy number

Look up how the NHS describe it. It is a high security psychiatric hospital. Some patients have committed crimes and been through the courts but not all. It doesn't matter how many times you say it's a prison, it isn't it's a hospital.

Interested to see that AR hasn't been transferred to Broadmoor Hospital on a section of the Mental Health Act known as a Hospital Order

This is being interpreted as meaning that this is a temporary move and he will be returning to prison when his behaviour is 'less dangerous'

Altho 'temporary' in Broadmoor terms can be years rather than weeks/months

I'm not sure a high security psychiatric hospital is lots of fun.

Presumably it depends how they respond to medication and/or therapy. Considering that many people in prisons are reported as having mental illnesses it must be very extreme to be moved to hospital.

Have visited another high security hospital as part of my training [not Broadmoor] and 'cushy' is just about the last way I'd describe it - it was one of the most terrifying afternoons of my life

You are unreasonable to call it Labours policy as it started under the last Government.
And for 20 yeas or more.under subsequent Government's there haven't been enough prison places.

You are also being unreasonable if you think it's possible to suddenly magic up more prisons. A building programme will take years. Meanwhile what do you propose?

That's was I would expect.

Yes his behaviour must indeed be extreme - he's already seriously injured one prison officer at Belmarsh - Broadmoor seems to have higher staffing levels than a prison

I didn't know that. Prison officers do a very challenging job. Sounds like a psychiatric hospital is the best place for him. Actually the mental health nurses also do a very difficult job.

Did you read any of my posts?

Its really both. Its a psychiatric hospital with a criminal secure unit. I went there once and as pp said - the idea that its some kind of cushy number is nonsense.

A friend of one of the DC did a long pre clinical placement there and also spent time with patients in regular prisons - she thought the hospital based prisoners were often on a tougher regime in terms of control and lack of even basic liberties.

I'm sorry but this isn't true

Broadmoor Hospital is part of West London NHS Trust which is a mental health trust - nothing to do with the prison service

The trust has 3 different levels of secure provision - Broadmoor being high/maximum secure

It is staffed by a variety of mental health professionals - forensic psychiatrists, psychologists, Psychotherapists but mostly by forensic psychiatric nurses who are NHS trained and on NHS contracts - if you look at the Broadmoor website you can see for yourself the posts currently being advertised

There are 3 things which are maybe leading to the idea of it being some kind of 'prison'

The obvious physical security - locks, fences, high walls alien to almost all other NHS provision

The Personality Disorder Unit which has clients you wouldn't normally see in a psychiatric unit

Most of the ward staff are members of the Prison Officers union rather than Unison - that on it's own doesn't make them prison officers

Holloway Prison is now housing. Dartmoor is now no longer a prison. That’s two that could have been used. As long as they are secure, I’m not sure too many members of the public would care if they were “modern”.

AR is obviously a dangerous monster. I don’t know much about Broadmoor, but would hope - expect - that he would be housed in a Silence of the Lambs-type set-up, and not enjoying the rehabilitation and recreational opportunities they offer. He is sub-human and therefore deserves sub-human rights.

Dartmoor was closed because of radiation from high radon emissions at the prison

It's not going to open again because of the very high cost of reducing radon emissions

That is interesting - it was a staff member who described the secure unit as a prison unit (they also had a separate secure unit for non prisoners at the time). They also had differences in uniform in that section at the time.

Is that a change that has happened over the years or was I misunderstanding the staff member’s description?

The staff wouldn't have appreciated the lung cancer they would develop as a result of working in Dartmoor very much, though.

We need robot staff!

Incidentally I saw a forensic psychiatrist on LBC and he was kind of implying (or at least I inferred) that a reason for AR’s move to Broadmoor was that in a hospital setting he can be administered drugs against his will which can’t be done in prison. He may be so out of control that he needs to be subdued.

It does seem from the little information that has been released that his 'behaviour' is pretty extreme

There was quite a detailed article in the Guardian earlier which has now been removed - or moved where I can't find it - previously their leading article in which a spokesperson from the POA was saying that AR would be putting the staff at Broadmoor at risk of injury because they would have to 'treat him like a patient not a prisoner' [paraphrased] Also saying AR was deliberately acting up to 'manipulate the system'

So too dangerous for Belmarsh?
But also too dangerous for Broadmoor?

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me except nothing I've read has mentioned mental illness/psychosis etc only 'behaviour' = ?violent behaviour

The general opinion is that although Broadmoor/Rampton/Ashworth are no picnic, they are much better than being in prison.

As a patient an inmate is entitled to a monetary allowance plus other benefits.

The killer of Preston Davey has been agitating to get into a psychiatric hospital.

If prisoners experience overcrowding, it would likely lead to increased tension and violence. It would not be fair to the prison officers managing the prisons.

Dartmoor was closed because if high levels of radon gas. Maybe people aren't worried about that for prisoners but I don't think prison officers should be working in such dangerous conditions. Bad enough they are at risk of attacks.

Back to the initial question. Non-violent prisoners maybe, those that are non UK nationals who can be deported back to their home country earlier than would have been the case (and if they cannot, remain in prison), and also where people are convicted of non-violent offences such as certain fraud, worth exploring the option of serving a sentence at a later date.

I'd like those ministers who historically did nothing to get more prisons built and created this crisis to face sanctions- stop Liz Truss and Dominic Raab travelling abroad would be one example.

You can't retrospectively apply a sec 37 hospital order, that can only be given at the point of sentencing.

But he will have been detained under the MHA to move him to Broadmoor. A sec 47.

Violent prisoners should never be released from prison, the whole purpose of prison is to keep us safe.

Im not talking about a single even but those who have a history of violence. They demonstrate they are not fit for life as a free person.

I don't think under the current system prisoners come out better people. There's no reform in prisons because of over crowding and lack of money.