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Politics

Story Time for Reform Voters

47 replies

ThisFastScroller · 20/05/2026 12:52

Hello Reform voters! And welcome to story time.

Once upon a time there was a very naughty Austrian boy called Naughty A.

The Great War finished in 1918. Trade embargos and sanctions were imposed on Germany and the poor people in Germany were very angry.

Naughty A knew these poor people were very angry and he knew he could manipulate these poor people into making himself very powerful.

After being elected the head of the German Workers Party he changed the name to the National Socialist German Workers Party to try and trick the poor people into thinking they were a socilaist party that really cared about the poor people.
What sort of idiot would fall for that? And what sort of idiot would still believe things like that almost one hundred years after it happened?

Naughty A used divisive and hateful politics, saying he would fix the broken country. He blamed minorities for all the problems in the land.
Jewish people, gay people, disabled people who couldn't work, Romani gypsies, and other minorities.

He promised the poor people he would "Make Germany great again" and that they would "Take their country back" and his supporters put lots of flags everywhere to intimidate and scare people whilst they called themselves proud patriots.

Now the newspapers in Germany were owned by very rich people and they knew that if the poor people were listening to Naughty A they wouldn't notice that the newspaper owners were very rich and part of the problem.
So the newspaper owners became complicit in enabling and facilitating the divisive politics of Naughty A and his party.
The newspaper owners were so successful that lots and lots of the poor people began to support Naughty A and his party.

Does this sound familiar to you, children...?

That's because it is.

Ever claim, every smear, every lie that is hurled today at Muslims, immigrants, queer people, and trans people was used against Jewish people and other minorities by Naughty A and his horrible, horrible friends.

OP posts:
coulditbeme2323 · 20/05/2026 15:26

ThisFastScroller · 20/05/2026 15:25

That would be a very large mistake.

Polanski?

ThisFastScroller · 20/05/2026 15:27

coulditbeme2323 · 20/05/2026 15:26

Polanski?

😂

You really are trying, aren't you? Very, very trying, actually...

OP posts:
coulditbeme2323 · 20/05/2026 15:30

ThisFastScroller · 20/05/2026 15:27

😂

You really are trying, aren't you? Very, very trying, actually...

Palestine Action?

JimBobsWife · 20/05/2026 15:48

Meanwhile OP ignores my inconvenient question…

ThisFastScroller · 20/05/2026 16:07

JimBobsWife · 20/05/2026 15:48

Meanwhile OP ignores my inconvenient question…

You have a legitimate question? One that hasn't already been addressed elsewhere in the thread (warning: may require you to read)?

OP posts:
coulditbeme2323 · 20/05/2026 16:07

ThisFastScroller · 20/05/2026 16:07

You have a legitimate question? One that hasn't already been addressed elsewhere in the thread (warning: may require you to read)?

lol

JimBobsWife · 20/05/2026 16:19

ThisFastScroller · 20/05/2026 16:07

You have a legitimate question? One that hasn't already been addressed elsewhere in the thread (warning: may require you to read)?

Ooh, OP, you are on fire today. Still not up for answering my legitimate question? If you didn’t understand it, that’s fine. Don’t be ashamed to say so.

ThisFastScroller · 20/05/2026 16:25

JimBobsWife · 20/05/2026 16:19

Ooh, OP, you are on fire today. Still not up for answering my legitimate question? If you didn’t understand it, that’s fine. Don’t be ashamed to say so.

Edited

Still waiting for a legitimate question.

Do you need time to read (which will take a few minutes) and understand (which will take significantly longer) the OP again?

OP posts:
Boomer55 · 20/05/2026 16:33

Democracy is voting for who you like, based on their policies.

Sniping from the sidelines won’t change that. 🤷‍♀️

RedTagAlan · 20/05/2026 17:11

Boomer55 · 20/05/2026 16:33

Democracy is voting for who you like, based on their policies.

Sniping from the sidelines won’t change that. 🤷‍♀️

I would say this thread is a great example of politics in action. The OP posted a factual story, one that the OP considers a lesson from history worth remembering, and people are reacting.

I happen to agree with the OP on this lesson from history.

A few years back, in the US, Trump fans tried to address this. And they applied revisionism. Dinesh D'Souza came out with a film in 2018, "Death of a Nation", that tried to re-invent the Austrian Corporal as a socialist and equate him to Democrats. That never worked very well. Just look at the reviews on IMDB:

Death of a Nation (2018) - IMDb

And the thing is, it is a lesson from history that I don't think anyone on the far right has been able to put people's minds at rest over. It should be easy right ?

Can someone from the far right explain why this lesson from history can be ignored ?

JimBobsWife · 20/05/2026 17:20

ThisFastScroller · 20/05/2026 16:25

Still waiting for a legitimate question.

Do you need time to read (which will take a few minutes) and understand (which will take significantly longer) the OP again?

You're still waiting? What for? I posted it a while ago.

Crikey, I have to hand it to you OP. Of all the tedious, navel gazing, smug threads I’ve been on today, this one wins first prize.

JimBobsWife · 20/05/2026 17:21

RedTagAlan · 20/05/2026 17:11

I would say this thread is a great example of politics in action. The OP posted a factual story, one that the OP considers a lesson from history worth remembering, and people are reacting.

I happen to agree with the OP on this lesson from history.

A few years back, in the US, Trump fans tried to address this. And they applied revisionism. Dinesh D'Souza came out with a film in 2018, "Death of a Nation", that tried to re-invent the Austrian Corporal as a socialist and equate him to Democrats. That never worked very well. Just look at the reviews on IMDB:

Death of a Nation (2018) - IMDb

And the thing is, it is a lesson from history that I don't think anyone on the far right has been able to put people's minds at rest over. It should be easy right ?

Can someone from the far right explain why this lesson from history can be ignored ?

And yet OP also manages to be insufferably patronising and you wonder why people don’t want to listen?

RedTagAlan · 20/05/2026 17:24

JimBobsWife · 20/05/2026 17:21

And yet OP also manages to be insufferably patronising and you wonder why people don’t want to listen?

You did. Page 2 after a couple of hours. Ok for a politics thread I reckon.

Do you think the OPs story is irrelevant to western politics today ? If so, why ?

coulditbeme2323 · 20/05/2026 17:26

RedTagAlan · 20/05/2026 17:24

You did. Page 2 after a couple of hours. Ok for a politics thread I reckon.

Do you think the OPs story is irrelevant to western politics today ? If so, why ?

HAHA

JimBobsWife · 20/05/2026 17:31

RedTagAlan · 20/05/2026 17:24

You did. Page 2 after a couple of hours. Ok for a politics thread I reckon.

Do you think the OPs story is irrelevant to western politics today ? If so, why ?

I listened, but plenty of people won't and are turned off by this talking down to the 'uneducated'. I asked a question of OP and they still haven't answered and instead have chosen to patronise and talk down to me. A clear sign they aren't interested in helping others to understand their perspective. They're just here to lecture. Maybe you are too.

In answer to your question, I think OP's story is relevant to western politics but only when viewed through a modern, progressive lens. Calling everyone Hitler and far right, for example, if they don't agree with your views.

Imdunfer · 20/05/2026 17:35

RedTagAlan · 20/05/2026 17:11

I would say this thread is a great example of politics in action. The OP posted a factual story, one that the OP considers a lesson from history worth remembering, and people are reacting.

I happen to agree with the OP on this lesson from history.

A few years back, in the US, Trump fans tried to address this. And they applied revisionism. Dinesh D'Souza came out with a film in 2018, "Death of a Nation", that tried to re-invent the Austrian Corporal as a socialist and equate him to Democrats. That never worked very well. Just look at the reviews on IMDB:

Death of a Nation (2018) - IMDb

And the thing is, it is a lesson from history that I don't think anyone on the far right has been able to put people's minds at rest over. It should be easy right ?

Can someone from the far right explain why this lesson from history can be ignored ?

The lesson is from much closer history. In the run up to Brexit people were called bigots, racists and far right for wanting to talk about their concerns about how their environment was being changed around them by mass immigration. They were shut down. The result was a Brexit vote that stunned the liberal politicians from all parties who had shut them down.

Then instead of listening Boris used "getting control of our borders" to allow even more people into the country. And again all the people trying to say that they were unhappy about this were called racists and bigots. That was doubled down on big time by the Labour goverment.

And now everyone is surprised that people are voting for right wing parties.

Now if they continue to fail to listen and continue to call people with legitimate concerns racists and bigots, they will see the OPs scenario playing out, but it won't be because the right wing voters don't understand history. It will be because left leaning politicians wouldn't listen when people said they were unhappy, and because people like the OP don't accept that there are legitimate grievances.

JimBobsWife · 20/05/2026 17:58

Imdunfer · 20/05/2026 17:35

The lesson is from much closer history. In the run up to Brexit people were called bigots, racists and far right for wanting to talk about their concerns about how their environment was being changed around them by mass immigration. They were shut down. The result was a Brexit vote that stunned the liberal politicians from all parties who had shut them down.

Then instead of listening Boris used "getting control of our borders" to allow even more people into the country. And again all the people trying to say that they were unhappy about this were called racists and bigots. That was doubled down on big time by the Labour goverment.

And now everyone is surprised that people are voting for right wing parties.

Now if they continue to fail to listen and continue to call people with legitimate concerns racists and bigots, they will see the OPs scenario playing out, but it won't be because the right wing voters don't understand history. It will be because left leaning politicians wouldn't listen when people said they were unhappy, and because people like the OP don't accept that there are legitimate grievances.

I would add to this the dismissal of these views by many that immigration is not the real issue, only stupid people who read the Daily Mail and listen to Farage think this. In reality I have seen more than a few posts on here from people who talk about their home towns having changed beyond recognition by mass immigration and poorly integrated communities.

Yes, I'm sure if billions had been poured into those areas over the years, the effects of mass immigration might be better masked. But it still doesn't change the fact that our demographics are changing faster than at any point in history and it's not bigoted or racist to want to have a conversation about that.

Imdunfer · 20/05/2026 18:00

JimBobsWife · 20/05/2026 17:58

I would add to this the dismissal of these views by many that immigration is not the real issue, only stupid people who read the Daily Mail and listen to Farage think this. In reality I have seen more than a few posts on here from people who talk about their home towns having changed beyond recognition by mass immigration and poorly integrated communities.

Yes, I'm sure if billions had been poured into those areas over the years, the effects of mass immigration might be better masked. But it still doesn't change the fact that our demographics are changing faster than at any point in history and it's not bigoted or racist to want to have a conversation about that.

Agree

RedTagAlan · 20/05/2026 18:01

Imdunfer · 20/05/2026 17:35

The lesson is from much closer history. In the run up to Brexit people were called bigots, racists and far right for wanting to talk about their concerns about how their environment was being changed around them by mass immigration. They were shut down. The result was a Brexit vote that stunned the liberal politicians from all parties who had shut them down.

Then instead of listening Boris used "getting control of our borders" to allow even more people into the country. And again all the people trying to say that they were unhappy about this were called racists and bigots. That was doubled down on big time by the Labour goverment.

And now everyone is surprised that people are voting for right wing parties.

Now if they continue to fail to listen and continue to call people with legitimate concerns racists and bigots, they will see the OPs scenario playing out, but it won't be because the right wing voters don't understand history. It will be because left leaning politicians wouldn't listen when people said they were unhappy, and because people like the OP don't accept that there are legitimate grievances.

Quote : "The result was a Brexit vote that stunned the liberal politicians from all parties who had shut them down."

I see this a lot from Trump and Reform fans. Liberals, as if it is some sort of insult. Own the libs, collect libs tears, all that sort of stuff. Then you mention left leaning.

I think that goes towards what the OP is saying. Because if you are against liberalism, then you are by definition against the concept of western democracy.

From the web :

"relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise:
"a liberal democratic state""

So, what is the opposite of that ? I would say exactly what the OP is talking about.

If a political movement is anti liberalism, then surely it is against the idea of individual liberty and democracy. Anti liberalism, is authoritarianism is it not ?

Happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

Imdunfer · 20/05/2026 18:06

RedTagAlan · 20/05/2026 18:01

Quote : "The result was a Brexit vote that stunned the liberal politicians from all parties who had shut them down."

I see this a lot from Trump and Reform fans. Liberals, as if it is some sort of insult. Own the libs, collect libs tears, all that sort of stuff. Then you mention left leaning.

I think that goes towards what the OP is saying. Because if you are against liberalism, then you are by definition against the concept of western democracy.

From the web :

"relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise:
"a liberal democratic state""

So, what is the opposite of that ? I would say exactly what the OP is talking about.

If a political movement is anti liberalism, then surely it is against the idea of individual liberty and democracy. Anti liberalism, is authoritarianism is it not ?

Happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

Because if you are against liberalism, then you are by definition against the concept of western democracy.

It is possible to be against liberal attitudes towards immigration at the same time as being in favour of other liberal ideas and of western democracy.

RedTagAlan · 20/05/2026 18:41

Imdunfer · 20/05/2026 18:06

Because if you are against liberalism, then you are by definition against the concept of western democracy.

It is possible to be against liberal attitudes towards immigration at the same time as being in favour of other liberal ideas and of western democracy.

Liberal does not mean left, or pro immigration.

You can be anti immigration, and pro liberal democracy. Just make a case without the nationalism. Drop the "Christian nation" stuff. Consult the 14 indicators of fascism, and make a case without ticking too many boxes.

I think there are a few versions of the 14 indicators. Here is one. Link below:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections

I deleted the descriptions of each. but they are in the link.

14 Points of Fascism (umich.edu)

I reckon of the 14 points, China ticks the most for major countries. But that top 3. Reform and Restore sure tick them it seems.

How many do you think Reform tick ? And can you make a case with no more ticks than the UK has already ?

Imdunfer · 21/05/2026 08:21

RedTagAlan · 20/05/2026 18:41

Liberal does not mean left, or pro immigration.

You can be anti immigration, and pro liberal democracy. Just make a case without the nationalism. Drop the "Christian nation" stuff. Consult the 14 indicators of fascism, and make a case without ticking too many boxes.

I think there are a few versions of the 14 indicators. Here is one. Link below:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections

I deleted the descriptions of each. but they are in the link.

14 Points of Fascism (umich.edu)

I reckon of the 14 points, China ticks the most for major countries. But that top 3. Reform and Restore sure tick them it seems.

How many do you think Reform tick ? And can you make a case with no more ticks than the UK has already ?

Don't mistake me for a Reform voter.

You have failed to engage on my principle point, just nitpicked about liberalism. I don't see any point in continuing the discussion.

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